Overturning the Gospels

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Guppy35
You make it sound so simple.  Funny how you try to divide us between Christian and Non-Christian.  How'd you make the distinction?  Which category did I get put in?

Thought it interesting in the Good Samritan story how Christ mentions the two religious men who walk away from the man in need.  Wonder who he's referring to?

SO you brought it up and then try and duck it saying you don't have to justify your actions?  LOL

Well I've always figured that actions speak louder then the words.  As one of those folks who has worked in the system for the last 20 years, I find your comments on it interesting too.

I've worked with abused, neglected, underprivilaged, etc Teenagers for the last 20 years.  Ironically, considering we're referring to New Orleans a bit, my first two years of combat time in the system were spent as a house parent in a runaway shelter just outside the French Quarter in New Orleans.  That was 24/7 responsibility.  My wife and I responsible for what went on, dealing with crisis phone, walk in stuff along with the 18 kids in the shelter.  Dealt with the project kids a lot.  IT was a real eye opener for a kid from the burbs in Minnesota to see how people were living in those projects.

One thing you find out in a hurry is regardless of the conditions a kid is living in, and the New Orleans projects were nasty, kids will go back to it, because that's all they know and that's where their home is.  It isn't so simple as if they just work hard enough they can rise above it.  They need to be shown a better way of doing it.  And that takes money, time and people.

But of course we've consistantly in the 20 years I've been doing this, watched as the money for programs gets smaller and smaller.  Numerous programs close and the resources are just not there so we don't get to the kids who have a chance.

But of course we happily build more jails to house them once they've become adults.

It's real easy to preach from the sidelines, and hope God or someone else does the work.

I've always figured my actions will speak louder then my words and that I have a responsibilty to my neighbor.

You did kinda leap right over my first reply and focus on old Silat too.

I honestly don't know what you are saying.  If you look at the history of Silat's among other's posts he loves to pick and choose were people who say they are christians are in fact bad people and then he blames the entire religion.  

He then procedes to tell me I need to do more and help people......well I HAVE but I don't feel the need to explain anything to him.

This whole notion of the church basically scaldingt he poor because they are poor is baseless to begin with.  Considering many churches in the area have opened up their doors and in many cases been the "first responders" to victims.

So what this all boils down to is that it is silat that's against the politics of the republican party and not the religion itself.

I've allways helped those less fortunate than myself.  But I preferr to help people help themselves anyday.  That doesn't mean I'm not helping them.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I honestly don't know what you are saying.  If you look at the history of Silat's among other's posts he loves to pick and choose were people who say they are christians are in fact bad people and then he blames the entire religion.  

He then procedes to tell me I need to do more and help people......well I HAVE but I don't feel the need to explain anything to him.

This whole notion of the church basically scaldingt he poor because they are poor is baseless to begin with.  Considering many churches in the area have opened up their doors and in many cases been the "first responders" to victims.

So what this all boils down to is that it is silat that's against the politics of the republican party and not the religion itself.

I've allways helped those less fortunate than myself.  But I preferr to help people help themselves anyday.  That doesn't mean I'm not helping them.

It seemed clear from the article Silat posted that his reference was to the radicalized Christian right which has become such a player in Republican politics.    This is the bunch that is focused on dictating morality and ramming God down our throats.

These are the folks who find the bible passage that in their eyes supports their political beliefs or morals and then try and impose it on others.

My first reply was in response to this.  Christ's talking about loving thy neighbor as thyself, is what it's all about.  In his story of the Good Samaritan he references organized religion in the two religious men who walk away.  They've lost sight of what's important.  The Samaritan hadn't. He didn't check the guys religious background, sexuality, marital status, color, etc.  He saw someone in trouble and he helped.

I'm sure that you do what you can to help.  It's not a shot at you.  The Christian right has lost sight of what's important in their zeal to make us all look and act the same.

It isn't how loud you sqwak, or how loud you pray, it's how you live your life and how you treat the people around you.

As for Silat.  I've known Lew for quite a while now first through Airwarrior and then AH.  He's a good Dad to his kids, and has become a good friend.  Funny how I've never met him in person yet.  But when it hit the fan with my kids, Lew was one of the first to make contact and offer whatever help he could.  

He seems to have his priorities straight in terms of how he treats people around him from what I can see.

[Simaril]

I'd also ask that folks keep in mind the difference from political activists and reality. Just like the maneuvers of the Al Sharptons and Ted Kennedys of the democratic party have very little to do with the voter down my street, the political movers in the "religious right" tend to put a lot more emphasis on the politics and fundraising than the expression of faith. Wasnt it Ralph Reed who went from "religious" activist to republican lobbyist without missing a beat?

As a firmly believing christian, these guys (with the occasional Phyllis Schafley thrown in) either nauseate me or bask in the light of  irrelevance, with as much impact on me politically as Al Sharpton has on my democratic friends. The chief difference being, that my Democratic-voting neighbor isnt continually asked to defend or justify Sharpton, the way Christians are held responsible for every politico wearing a cross...









And BTW, do you guys realize that the Salvation Army is not a christian relief organization?

It's a church denomination. The SA has its own congregations, ministers, and churches. It was founded in England in the same era as the Boy Scouts; both take military structure and clothing because those were culturally attractive during the time. They felt the cultutral egotism and elitism of the Victorian era contradicted the teachings of Jesus, and they went to the streets to reach the needy and suffering. The Salvation Army's mission statement is simple: "Hearts to God, and Hands to Man."

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Simaril


As a firmly believing christian, these guys (with the occasional Phyllis Schafley thrown in) either nauseate me or bask in the light of  irrelevance, with as much impact on me politically as Al Sharpton has on my democratic friends. The chief difference being, that my Democratic-voting neighbor isnt continually asked to defend or justify Sharpton, the way Christians are held responsible for every politico wearing a cross...

The fact that folks feel compelled to qualify that they are Christians speaks volumes about what you refer to however.

When a person's faith gets invoked in their politics it gets dangerous.  

I keep thinking about Christ throwing the money changers etc out of the Temple.  The point being, power and self serving aims, is not what Christianity or faith is about.

Most folks out there realize that their faith is their own and that it shouldn't be used as a hammer on someone.  

But it's delicate ground, and it can be used to scare people too.  How do you challenge a person holding a bible up in front of themselves.  You must not believe in God if you do that...right?

Religion is a powerful weapon.  Doing things as it's "God's will" is tough to take on too.

Once again, based on my own battle right now placing God in the context of the death of my 2 kids, makes it tough to buy that he has anything to do with it.  To place him in an active role, then puts him in the position of having chosen to kill my kids.  No active loving God would have done that.  

So man invoking God's name and will to forward his own man serving plan, doesn't sit real well with me.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Guppy35
The fact that folks feel compelled to qualify that they are Christians speaks volumes about what you refer to however....
snip

Do you mean the politicians qualifying themselves, or the christians?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Simaril
Do you mean the politicians qualifying themselves, or the christians?

Anyone, but in particular those in politics.  

It sounds like a qualifier then, as if the person is afraid that their words won't have as much meaning without that preface of "as a Christian".

Someone comfortable in thier faith and in themselves doesn't need to wear it on their sleeve.

I always remember the kids in my youth group at church growing up.  Those that prayed the loudest and went overboard on it, always tended to be the ones that were screwing up all week and could care less about those around them  It was as if they were trying to cover for themselves.

A person's actions tend to speak louder then their words in my opinion

Does it apply to absolutely everyone?  Of course not, but I trust you get my point.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Nash
Well....  I'm certainly, something, to hear that you survived your moment of crisis by suckling at the government's tit.

How did that feel? Suckling at the tax payer's collective tit, that is?

Hey Nash, just so you understand. Unemployment is INSURANCE!

That's why they call it UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE! You know who pays for this? Your employer. Every time you get a paycheck your employer pays Federal and State Unemployement Insurance. It is a mandated benefit you get from having a job, it is not a handout.

[Clifra Jones]

All that you know about God was written by men.

Also, men determined what you are allowed to read about God. There is much written about God and Jesus that is not published for the masses to consume.

[beet1e]

Silat,

I'll be happy to discuss this and any other matter over a casual drink. May I suggest a bottle of 1945 Chateau Lafites Baron Rothschild? If not, we could make do with a 1947 Chateau Petrus...

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
All that you know about God was written by men.

I don't know about that.  I was hiking one day in upstate New York when I stepped into a hole.  Clearing away some debris, I found that I had broken though the top of an old wooden box buried there in the forest.  

Inside I found on several golden tablets the original text of the Book of Mormon, purportedly written by God and delivered to Joseph Smith for transcription by the archangel Gabrial.

I took the tablets and put them in the trunk of my '71 Malibu and drove back to town.  Once back in town I sat down to recover from the days activities with some beer and some TV, and forgot all about those tablets.

They spent about three months in the trunk before I sold the car for parts to the local wrecking yard, and unfortunately the car was crushed and recycled with the religious artifacts still in the trunk.

But I swear I saw 'em... at least that's what I tell my Mormon friends.

[Hangtime]

Glad you made it out. Don't bite the hand that fed you.

If you wuz in range and said that to me Nash, I'da beyatch slapped yah.

Unemployment benefits are "insurance". Not 'Tax' dollars. Every working man and every employer pays into the fund. That is NOT 'Welfare" and it not funded by 'everybody elses' tax dollars.

Collecting unemployment insurance is NOT 'suckling at the collective taxpayers tit' any more than getting an insurance payment for a fire loss on your house is.

Lying around on your obese fat bellybutton popping babies out every 9.2 months to cash in on 'Welfare' is 'suckling at the collective taxpayers tit'.

Capesh?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Anyone, but in particular those in politics.  

It sounds like a qualifier then, as if the person is afraid that their words won't have as much meaning without that preface of "as a Christian".

Someone comfortable in thier faith and in themselves doesn't need to wear it on their sleeve.

I always remember the kids in my youth group at church growing up.  Those that prayed the loudest and went overboard on it, always tended to be the ones that were screwing up all week and could care less about those around them  It was as if they were trying to cover for themselves.

A person's actions tend to speak louder then their words in my opinion

Does it apply to absolutely everyone?  Of course not, but I trust you get my point.

Somone comfortable enough in their life doesn't need to be a bigot and classify all for the words of the few.  Silat likes to point that out every chance he gets.  I don't push my faith down his or your throats.  I don't tell you you're wrong for not beleiving.  

But for somone to question my motives and the amount that I "help out" in society because he has a bug up his bellybutton with the religious right to me is inexcusable.  Not to mention the fact that people are people....thus imperfect.

[FiLtH]

Leaving religion out of it, the phrase should read " Foolish people hate people who dont help them when they're foolish>"

[Silat]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I honestly don't know what you are saying.  If you look at the history of Silat's among other's posts he loves to pick and choose were people who say they are christians are in fact bad people and then he blames the entire religion.  

He then procedes to tell me I need to do more and help people......well I HAVE but I don't feel the need to explain anything to him.

This whole notion of the church basically scaldingt he poor because they are poor is baseless to begin with.  Considering many churches in the area have opened up their doors and in many cases been the "first responders" to victims.

So what this all boils down to is that it is silat that's against the politics of the republican party and not the religion itself.

I've allways helped those less fortunate than myself.  But I preferr to help people help themselves anyday.  That doesn't mean I'm not helping them.

Guns please oh please point out where I have told you to do anything. You protest to much.
Yes I am against this administration. Yes Im against all those that claim to follow their bible and dont.
Jesus was a liberal my friend.


                             

[Silat]

Originally posted by beet1e
Silat,

I'll be happy to discuss this and any other matter over a casual drink. May I suggest a bottle of 1945 Chateau Lafites Baron Rothschild? If not, we could make do with a 1947 Chateau Petrus...

Beetle I have an 82 haut brion if you can make it over:)