Author Topic: Parent jailed for spanking child...  (Read 3303 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Parent jailed for spanking child...
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2001, 02:09:00 PM »
Well said Batdog...

HEY!

This thread is out of control, all of you go to your rooms now, this discussion is too civil.

Offline daddog

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Parent jailed for spanking child...
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2001, 06:20:00 PM »
I am not sure why I am doing this because I prefer to stay out of these threads, but a squadie pointed me this way.  I also don't think minds are changed much, but you never know.

Father of 4 here. Three girls and one boy.
Yes I spank my children. If you have never raised a "strong willed child" then consider yourself fortunate or blessed depending on your belief. Out of all of you who are reading this thread maybe only a few "really" understand what it is to raise a strong willed child. Maybe you have one, or a family member or friend does. For some of you just talking it out might work for your kids, but don't ever suppose that will work on ALL children or that we should ALL be expected to use what works for some others. There is no one formula that will work for all children and if someone is telling you that, they are sadly mistaken. I don't care if they have a Phd from Hillery it takes a village or not. They are wrong.

Before I spank them I always explain why and that I still love them. Afterwards I always tell them I love them and ask them why they were spanked. I never use a belt or any other object, but only my hand. I always spank on the rear end and will never strike them anywhere else. I spank for defiance and little else. Three swats and never any more though sometimes less. NEVER in anger, that is when you might step over the line from displine to abuse/punishment. I never would spank for so many of the "things children do". Most of it is just exploring and a time out or a talk to will work.

I hope you don't ever have to spank your children. Many don't have to, but don't consider yourself making a mistake or a failure because you have had occasion to.

Lastly it is NOT the boy who is the problem, but one of the girls.   :D My son is one of the most compliant children I have ever known.  :) I never have to spank him. Takes after his dad.  ;)

It is my hope that all of you who do raise children let them know daily how much you love them. That will carry and guide them better than anything you can come up with.

James "daddog" Glazier

Husband
Father
Teacher
Noses in the wind since 1997
332nd Flying Mongrels
daddog
Knowing for Sure

Offline Gunthr

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Parent jailed for spanking child...
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »
That was really well said, Dad.   :) I can't disagree with any of it. <S>

For me, the semantics get in the way, ie "spanking" vs whipping. I think I've got an emotional chip on my shoulder on this issue because I was my dad's "workout" partner growing up, if you know what I mean.

I am blessed that all my kids take after thier old Dad, and are extrememly bright, good looking and well behaved.  ;)


Gunthr

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: Gunthr ]
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Naso

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« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »
WOW, what a beautiful thread!!

Civil and interesting, WTG gents!

Only sad think is that I need mental care, I've found myself agreeing with Rip!    :eek:

  ;)

Offline ispar

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« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2001, 12:10:00 PM »
It's almost embarrassing how often I find myself agreeing with StSanta and Sandman these days.

Must be because I'm far too lazy and inarticulate to express my views coherently for myself. And to think that StSanta isn't even doing it in his native language!  ;)

S!

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2001, 08:40:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naso:

Only sad think is that I need mental care, I've found myself agreeing with Rip!     :eek:

   ;)

Geological and political preferences tend to sway us to 'sterotype' people, you and I would probably be pleasantly surprised how much we really agree on!

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2001, 04:34:00 AM »
I bet I can beat Ripsnort up real good.

All them muscles will make 'im slow.

Whatya say, you dumb farmboy hillbilly yank, wanna go at it?

I won't kick you in the groin, since I suspect there's little to hit.

<Still trying to make up for the pro-American 4th july post>

Come get some, yank scum.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2001, 10:43:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrfish:

never once did the mother demand the child apologize to the lady.

Here's why. Telling children to say they are sorry when they are not teaches them that there is profit in lying. Eventually, they figure it out and when they do apologize, they mean it.
sand

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2001, 11:41:00 AM »
Not making your children apologize for abhorrent behavior? Especially young ones? I disagree. I don't believe we teach people to lie just because we make them apologize. We teach them there are limits to behavior. We teach them where the limit is. We also show others around us that we, even if our children aren't, are sorry for the behavior and will make an attempt to curtail it.

If I was the person having my hair pulled and didn't hear appropriate action being taken by the mother I might be tempted to take action myself- this mirrors society's model (i.e. handle yourself properly or society is forced to handle you). I would most likely direct my energy right at the parent. In today's world that will most likely mean the parent and I will exchange some heated words- now there is a wonderful example for the child!

Not to get personal, but I am left wondering where it is acceptable to disallow anything a child does anymore. I was spanked as a child, and most likely earned every one I ever had. I would have laughed heartily at "time out". Knowing Dad was coming home and I was going to get a grade-A a**-whupping sure made me think twice about doing things that were unacceptable. Once I figured out right and wrong I didn't need such incentive.

On a more technical aside, the argument here is one more of motivation and values. Some believe that children will do whatever you ask if you explain it to them. This is not true. Children are people, and people want what they want how they want it when they want it. Children are simply more open about their desires than adults. If explaining right and wrong was all that was needed to make people behave, we could tear down our prisons, right?   ;)

For people to behave in any desired way there must be intrinsic or extrinsic motivation to do so. The target with young people is to get them intrinsically motivated, but that means instilling the desired value system, without which intrinsic motivation just doesn't happen. This is where the true magic of education (your own or other children) occurs. How do you make anyone believe your way is the right way? And with children, how do you keep their attention long enough to sway them? You are forced to use extrinsic motivation, and of a type of sufficient discomfort to make disobeying more unpleasant than following their own wishes.

Talking is great, but let's face it, we all have the ability to tune out those we don't wish to hear. We learn that as children, by all the talks our parents give us. I say once again, I can remember maybe two talks my parents gave me that mattered at all in the way I thought. I can remember plenty of whippings and why I got them. As I got older I began to understand my parents' motivations, and even began to appreciate their values. Suddenly I didn't need extrinsic motivation (spankings). I had internalized the message (intrinsic). It was part of the belief system. Did spankings make me understand the message better? Indirectly, because if I hadn't been spanked I might never have thought about why I was punished. Without that introspection I would never have had the opportunity to internalize the belief system I now have. I would be a different person than I am today, and I doubt it would have been a better person.

You discipline your children because you love them. You spank them because sometimes it is what they need to make them listen and think. It may seem harsh and brutal, but believe me when I say I get to teach a generation of kids that are raising themselves because their parents don't believe in conventional parenting. Kids will and do develop belief systems as they mature, just don't be sure it will be the ones you wish.

For those that don't spank, fine, don't. That is your choice. Just remember, just as there are those that are abusive on the extreme spanking end of the spectrum, there are those on the extreme end of non-aggressive discipline. Neither work.

Offline buhdman

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Parent jailed for spanking child...
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2001, 12:03:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran:

For those that don't spank, fine, don't. That is your choice. Just remember, just as there are those that are abusive on the extreme spanking end of the spectrum, there are those on the extreme end of non-aggressive discipline. Neither work.

Hmmmm ... not spanking our children worked for us.  I guess we must have done something wrong  ;)

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2001, 01:00:00 PM »
You misread me. My point is that if you take a totally passive approach to discipline it is not discipline at all. What I specifically refer to are the parents who believe that a wonderful human being will unfurl like a flower at sunrise- all you have to do is feed and water it. I am talking about parents who can reason away every form of direct intervention of child misconduct. I am speaking of parents who believe the emotional well-being (read "feelings") of their child is more important than the physical harm or property damage their children have generated.

I don't mean you have to spank to be a good parent, I mean you aren't a bad parent just because you spank. I mean you fail as a parent if you don't address misconduct. I mean you fail your child if you allow them to make others suffer for their convenience.

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2001, 05:42:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:


Here's why. Telling children to say they are sorry when they are not teaches them that there is profit in lying. Eventually, they figure it out and when they do apologize, they mean it.

well actually my upbringing says that when someone is wronged, an apology should follow. should they have just kept quiet and said nothing to the lady? if not from the child then definitley from the mother. the mother should at least be sorry for her child's actions because it is her poor parenting skills that allowed the child to think that her actions would be acceptable in the first place.

but i suspect you were just looking for something to disagree with me about more than trying to make a point.

[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2001, 07:00:00 PM »
Hey... no disagreement. If you feel that you've wronged someone, then you should say so. Now, if you're saying you're sorry simply because it's what they want to hear, it's not honest. The apology is cheap and meaningless.

I agree, children should know when to apologize. At the same time, children should also be honest, but by ordering them to say they are sorry when they aren't is a mixed message.

Sure... it's a subtle thing. Negotiating parenthood is by no means easy.

Along the way, I've found myself apologizing for my children more than once, but eventually they do get it and the apologies are no longer cheap and meaningless.
sand

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2001, 07:07:00 PM »
i can live with that - i just think someone ought to say something - one the other hand nothing worse than one of those fake and sacharine rich brat apologies " say sorry to the silly man precious and mommy will get you an ice cream "  :)

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2001, 08:50:00 PM »
Exactly!

Sir, we are in violent agreement.  :)
sand