Stuka..oh please...

[MOSQ]

This has been debated extensively before. I'd love to see the Stuka Tank Buster here.

See: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132600

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Should be perked.

 Either that, or no perked tanks.
 
 Any fool can take up a Ju87G and go crashing into a nearby tank guns blazing.

SNIP

Not so. You exaggerate the issue. It flies worse than a hurri2D. It's slower, less manuverable, and can't do squat. It has weaker guns with less ammo per gun. The ONLY thing it would have is a dive brake. The rear guns are useless, as in a hurri2D you don't need them (can evade).

Can anybody just go diving into a tank with a Hurri2D? Yes they CAN, whether or not they'll hit the tank on the way down is another matter. To date I've only hit one tank ever with the hurri2D's guns. They suck, totally. Some people can do it, I can't. I know a lot of others cannot, as well. Heck I'm a seasoned pilot, but it's only those that know what they're doing that are going to get any kills at all with a stuka tank killer, and those people are just as lethal (if not more so) in the hurri2D which we already have. No reason NOT to add this stuka... eventually.

Just no reason to rush it either. We have more important needs right now.

[Debonair]

I think the G model Stuka didn't have dike brakes, but according to Rudel's Stuka Pilot[/b]
it could absorb many 37mm hits without consequence

[Krusty]

Theoretically so could the hurricane, with its wooden construction.

[Nosara]

So no Ju87 with 37mm. But dive bombing Lanks and La7s with guns are ok to rip open your panzers and tigers. gmafb...

[Karnak]

Krusty,

The 37mm guns on the Ju87G-2 have much, much, much higher armor penetration than the 40mm guns on the Hurri IId.  To the point that the 37mm guns will take a Tiger out from the front, through the hull armor, no aiming required.

[Hoarach]

Either way, seeing a stuka in the would mean easy kill for us fighter pilots.  So bringing in the tank busting stuka doesnt matter to me, its just free pickings.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Krusty
Not so. You exaggerate the issue. It flies worse than a hurri2D. It's slower, less manuverable, and can't do squat. It has weaker guns with less ammo per gun. The ONLY thing it would have is a dive brake. The rear guns are useless, as in a hurri2D you don't need them (can evade).

 

Actually, the Ju87D-3 we have in here will out turn pretty much all fighters and the D-3 was the Ju87 that had the worst maneuverability of all the Stukas.  The dive brakes were also removed in the G versions, I think the D-5 was the last one to retain them since the Ju87 was no longer considered a dive bomber once it became the primary tank buster in the East.



ack-ack

[Kweassa]

Like Karnak said, be it a more crappy plane than the Hurri2D(which, is a fighter, and the Stuka is technically a bomber), or possess less ammo, doesn't matter at all.

 Again, the only thing that matters is how well it can do its intended job. If it can do its job so easily as to make a certain portion of the gameplay nigh useless, then it needs to be perked.

 Imagine a slow, lumbering 4-engined bomber that carries a nuclear warhead is to be introduced in the game. When the bomb is dropped, it will obliterate everything, be it ground object or a plane in the air, within a 10 mile radius. So, because the bomber is so slow and weak of defense, should it be non-perked? Is it the bomb alone not worth perking?


 I don't care squat about how easy it is to kill with fighters. I think from the GV perspective, and that perspective tells me that if there are free Ju87Gs flying around bases, I'm never, ever gonna up a tank to go rush a town or field ever again. I'm gonna up an Ostie, and go hit towns with Osties. All my friends will also be upping Osties, because, there is no reason to ever up a tank at all  -----  just like the old, AH1 days. Say adios to the ground war as we know it, and welcome back the old, bland, stale, Ostie swarms.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Like Karnak said, be it a more crappy plane than the Hurri2D(which, is a fighter, and the Stuka is technically a bomber), or possess less ammo, doesn't matter at all.

 Again, the only thing that matters is how well it can do its intended job. If it can do its job so easily as to make a certain portion of the gameplay nigh useless, then it needs to be perked.

 Imagine a slow, lumbering 4-engined bomber that carries a nuclear warhead is to be introduced in the game. When the bomb is dropped, it will obliterate everything, be it ground object or a plane in the air, within a 10 mile radius. So, because the bomber is so slow and weak of defense, should it be non-perked? Is it the bomb alone not worth perking?


 I don't care squat about how easy it is to kill with fighters. I think from the GV perspective, and that perspective tells me that if there are free Ju87Gs flying around bases, I'm never, ever gonna up a tank to go rush a town or field ever again. I'm gonna up an Ostie, and go hit towns with Osties. All my friends will also be upping Osties, because, there is no reason to ever up a tank at all  -----  just like the old, AH1 days. Say adios to the ground war as we know it, and welcome back the old, bland, stale, Ostie swarms.  
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LOL  Kwessa they do that now with just IL2s upping .  Here is the way it goes. 2 scenarios:
 1 I see a town flashing but not field. I up an IL2 find a panzer heading twards the town. I make 2 good passes tank dead. Same person does this maybe 2 more times. Now either he ups an osti or moves to another undefended field.

2 a planned attack even numbers of tanks and aa gvs. Thease provide fun fights. This is where i see aa in close procimity to tanks. MUCH MUCh harder to kill  tanks. You might get 2 good passes before you get pinnged up enough to take you out of the fight.  


So in senario  1 yup it would make it a easyer.  But in 2 nahh wont be any easyer.


Bronk

[MOSQ]

Panzers unprotected by Ostys and m-16s are dead meat now. I up a ki-84 with 2 x 500 pounders and there is 2 dead panzers.  I doubt with the low ammo supply I would get more than 2 dead panzers strafing with the Stuka.

If the Panzers are protected by Ostys, I may still get them with my Ki-84. At least it has speed to give the osty a hard shot.

The low slow Stuka would be an easy kill for the Ltars.

I see no change in the gameplay, other than an interesting addition to the planeset..

[Krusty]

Y'all act like it's freakin' EASY to hit a moving tank. Hell it's hard to hit one standing STILL. Just because "if you hit, you'll do damage" -- that don't mean squat. You still gotta HIT, and it's not easy, screaming down in a dive. Some seem upset that it will kill from any angle -- big whoop. So can the Hurr2D. Hurr2D comes in from the side it can knock out your tracks easy, kill your turret just as easy. Come in from back can kill you outright, kill engine, kill turret. Come in from front can get the odd pilot kill thing, can take out turret. All the while you can be shooting the bugger in your pintle gun (which is highly effective, as of late...).

Fact of the matter is, given 30 rounds in a Hurr2D, people are going to miss over half of them. Same goes for stuka. A select few are "uber leet" and can hit on every pass -- but that's the small minority with freakishly long stick time in tank killing planes. They'll kill you no matter what they're in.

Stuka won't change anything.

My $0.02 (sorry, exact change only)

[RTSigma]

Heaven forbid we have tank busters doing their job efficiently against unprotected tank columns.


A JU-87G2 is worse than a guy in a Lanc carpet bombing a group of tanks. At least with the Stuka, they have to target a tank individually and use SKILL to hit them.


I say bring it in, not like the other Stuka will be used anyway.

[lasersailor184]

Y'all act like it's freakin' EASY to hit a moving tank.

It is easy.  It took me about 2 weeks of practice in an IL2 to become proficient at dropping bombs on moving and non moving tanks.

It also helped me learn the HurriD.  Btw, the only real disadvantage the HurriD has is speed.  It's not fast at all.  It does not suffer any maneuvaribility problems at all.  Most of the time I can keep up with a Hurri2C.



Kweassa is right.  The Ju87 needs to be perked.  How much is the real topic of debate.  The Ju87 will kill anything it touches.  It's not hard to hit a tank, even in my hurriD.  However, I need absolute focus and a steady hand to hit the right spots.  And even then I need the perfect run to get a straight out instant kill.

This would not be true with the Ju87.  The Ju87 that touches a tank will injure it.


However, the Ju87 is very vulnerable in the air.  An AAA tank on the ground could easily defend any more tanks (if it's a good shot).  Any plane passing in the air could take it out.

So you have to weigh cost vs. Use.  I think if you make it 50 perks, people won't take it.  If you make it 10, People won't mind losing it and will do things they shouldn't be doing.

I'd say 30-40.


Another point I'd like to make is that the M16 and M3 are almost invulnerable to the Hurricane mk2D.  It would also be that way to the Ju87.

The M3 and M16 have a lot of thin armor with nothing important on the other side of the armor.  The AP rounds just punch clean holes, no explosions.  You need to make a PERFECT shot on either to hit anything important.  Also count in how fast they are moving and how easily they can dodge.

You're better off shooting them with .303's.

[Blammo]

If AND ONLY if this plane ever sees the light of the MA, perk it and it will become a hangar queen.   The reasoning will be, why up it and waste the perks when I can do the same job with something else.  Either that or the perk cost will be so low as to be pointless.

LOL...people act like this lone little plane will be the king of battle or something.  As was brought up, a single tank trying to attack a field would get popped.  A dedicated force attacking a field would include AA (and probably air cover).

It's just a slow, flimsy, little plane with an awesome set of guns (and very little ammo for those guns).  To compare it to a bomber carrying n00ks is ridiculous (besides, in that case I would perk the n00k and not the ride).  I seriously doubt that this one plane would totally change the face of the game any more that any other plane (or GV) has and there is no empirical evidence to suggest it would.  Assertions are not proof, just assertions.


Bring it and bring it free.  If life as we know it in the game for GVs goes down the toilet, then perk it.  That takes all of what, 5 minutes and a server reboot?

Anyway, good discussion.