Author Topic: Help on overshoots (Read 737 times)

AKFokerFoder+ · « **on:** October 17, 2005, 08:26:18 PM »

I am asking some advice on overshoots.

I have too often forced an overshoot only to find the bogey pulls up with lots of e, and bombs back down on me.

Last night I took out an LA5, (for something different). I had a G10 on me, he was slowly gaining, so I took him way as far out as I could (he had a mossie behind him).

I started a barrel roll at about 400k back, trying to slow just a bit, but keep him from shredding me with his (in all probability) 30mm. I did get him out in front of me, and I was unscathed, but I was a bit worried about the mossie about 2.5 k back and closing fast. If I went vertical to follow him, I figured the mossie would cherry pick me. The G10 went vertical, and I broke off figuring the G10 would climb in panic. He didn’t he came back down on me and took me out.

The big problem I see in that fight was that I didn’t finish him when I had the chance ( I was way under D100).

But the big thing seems to be, to keep my speed up, force the overshoot and still have almost equal speed to the bogey so that I can take the shot.

What of course happens too often is that I lose sight of the bogey, and don’t re-engage in time, and by the time I get back on the dudes six, he is at least 400, and faster than me.

Any help on how to keep tabs on him as I’m barrel rolling so that I can get on his six faster?

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2005, 10:04:17 PM »

Well I don't count 2.5d as "in the fight"... I'd have pulled up, shot the 109, and/or then finished the loop to face the Moss threat.

The problem with all overshoots is just that, making them overshoot. Some don't fall for it. You can still get 'em some of the time, but an overshoot is not a real tactic (

), so if it doesn't work there's nothing for it, just try something else.

Pooface · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2005, 05:31:28 AM »

Overshoot Vid

now it aint great, it was my first movie, but it will show you what to do when they zoom climb, and come back in for you. just at the end, before i shoot him, he goes up trying to get back behind me.

what you need to do is keep an eye on him, work out where he's going to go, and if he's going faster than you, like he would be if he came down on you, you split s, and he'll fly underneath, and you should have an opportunity for a shot. if not, well atleast you evaded him well. then you just need to set it up again

(but, like i said, their are a few flaws in the vid, eg. no distances or speeds shown:rolleyes:. it was my first vid so i didnt quite get it right.

)

if you'd like i can send you the .ahf film

Nomak · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2005, 07:57:33 AM »

It would be easer for me to show you than to try to explain it in text. I will be happy to do so if you like. See my "Unoffical training thread" in this forum if you want to get together.

Dave

aSTAR · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:13:03 AM »

Nice Film Pooface, thanks.

megadud · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:19:56 AM »

ROTF poo

the "and here's that shot in slow motion" was great!

good flying poo, was a great shot.

Pooface · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:57:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by megadud
ROTF poo the "and here's that shot in slow motion" was great! good flying poo, was a great shot.

ah ty. it was my first, so it certainly wasnt oscar winning

i think i kinda put too much text in too, but hey, i learned a lot for next time

the annoying thing is that i only got an assist for that! some dweeb cherry picking lala shot of his wing tip just as my rounds left my gun. i was clearly the guy that killed him, seeing as i killed his pilot, engine, and took all his stabs off

bit annoying that:rolleyes:

AutoPilot · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:58:09 AM »

When you do get them to overshoot try to be looking straight up
and out the front of the plane,they usually appear at that point.

As far as this not being a "real tactic " This is a game not real life
and you should do whatever it takes to get them off your 6,most
virtual pilots call this move stick stirring.Those are the same
virtual pilots who
1.Cannot perform this manuver.
2.The ones that always fall for it.
3.Expect you too hold still while they shoot at you.

Try doing the vertical scissors but not at least until they are 600 off of you.

Pooface · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:20:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AutoPilot
When you do get them to overshoot try to be looking straight up
and out the front of the plane,they usually appear at that point.

As far as this not being a "real tactic " This is a game not real life
and you should do whatever it takes to get them off your 6,most
virtual pilots call this move stick stirring.Those are the same
virtual pilots who
1.Cannot perform this manuver.
2.The ones that always fall for it.
3.Expect you too hold still while they shoot at you.

Try doing the vertical scissors but not at least until they are 600 off of you.

stick stirring is dweeby, lame, and leaves you with no energy, and in a spin. stick stirring hinders more than it helps, trust me;)

AutoPilot · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:31:22 AM »

refer to #'s 1 through 3

Pooface · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:49:36 AM »

1. actually, i can stick stir very well, best way to do it is full rudder, opposite roll, wait for it to spin, then pull right back on the elevators. you can do full 360 degrees spins, and sometimes fly backwards for a second, and get some lucky shots on the guy behind you. (noobs, dont try this, you will stall out and die)

2. i never fall for it, i break up, wait for them to stop, then come down on them again, when they have no e and cant defend at all. easy kills

3. i dont expect anyone to hold still if im shooting at them, infact i do prefer if theyre moving, im better at snapshots and lead pursuit than i am at shooting a still target

stick stirring is gamey, dweeby, and cheating yourself out of learning to fight properly.

stick stirring is a VERY bad tactic. most people will just blast some cannon rounds into a guy stick stirring, which will usually hit a few times, because the guy is moving. keeping your energy and doing some smooth barrel rolls will work FAR better, aswell as something like a cut throttle, side slipping split s (no one will EVER hit a spitfire doing an inverted sideslipping split s)

truth is, if you want to evade, stirring is the worst possible thing to do. if you'd like, id be more than happy to take you to the TA and show you some moves. of course, nothing is better than experience

AutoPilot · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:54:53 AM »

stick stirring is a last ditch effort.

or you are setting the 1 behind you up for your wingman who over top of you waiting for the rightmoment too pounce.......

dedalos · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2005, 12:30:18 PM »

Autopilot, no one calls that stick stiring. I'll try to fing a film so you can see what stick stiring looks like.

Poo, I think you are discribing a snap roll. When stickstiring in a 190 (works in everyplane but 190s are the king) you have absolute control of the plane. You just keep roling left and right randomly and fast taking advantage of the fast roll of your plane. That generates staters and microwarps on the other guys FE and make it impossible to line up a shot at you.

Pooface · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2005, 12:46:08 PM »

yeah i know, but very fast snap rolls do it better. trust me, i used it all the time when i was starting out

dedalos · « **Reply #14 on:** October 18, 2005, 12:47:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
yeah i know, but very fast snap rolls do it better. trust me, i used it all the time when i was starting out

They do, but you can get killed. Stick stiring maintains your E and does not throw you out of control.