Jordan could easily be called Palestine based on population
Yes, it could. Does it solve any problems?
If Jordan is renamed Palestine, what happens to the millions of Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation? Do they become happy to live under occupation because they know somewhere else there is a country called Palestine?
They can't move there, because they can't afford to leave their current homes and land, and Jordan doesn't have enough water or arable land for them (Jordan is mostly desert)
If Canada was renamed the United States, would Americans happily leave and give the current US to the Mexicans?
The Palestinians aren't causing trouble because there is no state called Palestine. Those Palestinians who remained in Israel, and who now have Israeli citizeship, are not involved in terrorism. That's because they have equal rights with Israeli Jews and do not have to live under military occupation. If it was all about a name, they'd be fighting too.
Then you obviously haven't been reading Islamic Websites, or many of the Islamic works written since the end of the colonial era and the beginning of what Muslim scholars regard as the present "revival" of Islam. Yes, they plan on reabsorbing Andalusia, this is a long term goal, but one which Muslims have been dreaming of since 1492.
Seagoon, do you think all Muslims dream of this? Most?
Do Christians dream of of the end times, and want them to come now? All Christians? Most Christians?
Do you really believe it's one of the driving ambitions of the man in the street in Egypt to make Spain a Muslim country?
Can you name any Muslim governments that are working towards that end?
Are individual Muslims nuts? Of course. Just are there are Christians who are nuts. Are there individual Muslims working towards turning Spain into a Muslim country? Of course. Just as there are still Christian missionaries out there trying to civilize Africa, and trying to spread Christianity further.
What about Jews? Do you think Jews dream of extending the boundaries of Israel to the Euphrates? Some Jews? All Jews? Just the nutters?
nash have you seen yoav shamir's documentary "checkpoints"?
I don't know. Probably not, but possibly yes. Is it any good?
Someone explain to me who the modern Plaistinians are? Sadat was an Egyptian
I know he was. He was president of Egypt. What has that got to do with the Palestinians?
If you mean Arafat, his parents were both Palestinian. There is doubt about whether he was born in Cario or Jerusalem, and supporting documentation for both.
If it matters so much where Arafat was born, though, what about Israeli leaders?
Who are the modern Jews? David Ben Gurion was born in Poland. Moshe Sharett was born in the Ukraine. Levi Eshkol was born in the Ukraine. Golda Meir was born in the Ukraine. It's not until 1974 and the election of Yizhak Rabin that Israel had a PM who was born in Israel. And after Rabin came Menachem Begin (born in the Ukraine), Yitzhak Shamir (born in Poland) and Shimon Peres (born in Poland). So are the modern Jews half Polish and half Ukranian?
If Jews retain their identity (and ownership of Israel) after 1500 years away, why does a Palestinian lose his after a few years?
The whole argument is ridiculous.
Jews are people who identify themselves, and who are regarded by the world, as Jewish. Palestinians are people who identify themselves, and who are regarded by the world, as Palestinian.
I also thought ethnically by birth origin the founders of the current group of Palistinians were from all over the Muslim world.
No, ethnicaly by birth they are mostly the descendants of Arabs who lived in Palestine for the past few centuries.
So how come before this modern round of Palistine homeland stuff got started in the 20th century didn't any of the Muslim countries take in these Muslims?
Because before the creation of Israel, there was no need to "take them in", they were living in Palestine.
They are all Arabs Bustr, Palestine is just a region. The Palestinians are obviously those people who live in the area or are descendants of those who were forced out by Israel. Jordan took in a lot of Palestinians until they became a threat. They were forced out in the during the infamous 'Black September' purge by King Hussein.
Just a minor correction to that. The armed Palestinian groups were forced out in "Black September", Jordan is still home to a great many Palestinians, in fact about 60% of the population of Jordan is Palestinian.
The area by that time had seen an influx of Jews who had fled Nazi Germany and other areas of Europe. At the time Israel proclaimed itself a state, it was a majority population of Jews.....around 600,000 if I recall. And I am just going by memory, so I may be off a little on that.
That's a bit off.
The UN partition plan for what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza was drawn up in 1947. It proposed 3 areas, a Jewish state, a Palestinian state, and an international area around Jerusalem.
The populations of the 3 areas as proposed were:
Jewish state 498,000 Jews, 325,000 Arabs
Palestinian state 807,000 Arabs, 10,000 Jews
International area 105,000 Arabs 100,000 Jews
The population of what was then Palestine and is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza was about 65% Arab.
Then, 6 Arab nations attacked Israel and as a result, Israel captured additional land, which caused a lot of Muslims to flee the area.
No. The Jewish forces set about capturing land before the establishment of the state, and before foreign Arab armies intervened. Look up, for example Plan Dalet, or Operation Nachshon. Or the capture of Jaffa (supposed to be in the Palestinian state)
Note, that's not to say this was Jewish aggression, either. Both sides were manoeuvering to secure what they could. But the idea that the Jewish forces sat there until attacked, and then happened to find itself with some extra land, is just as false as claiming Jews attacked peaceful Arabs and stole their land. Both sides realized that war was coming, and both sides wanted to come out if with as much as possible.
Yes... as I said above in a previous post.... They only work in Israel. Laws still apply.
No, only a tiny number work in Israel. The vast majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are either unemployed or work in the West Bank and Gaza.
Didn't the jews use terrorism to get there own state?
Yes. They used terrorism against Arabs, and against the British. They blew up the British embassy in Rome, they sent letter bombs in Britain, they murdered British soldiers and policemen, they murdered British politicians, they murdered the UN peace envoy (Count Folke Bernadotte)
From the British submission the the UN commission on Palestine in 1947:
"The right of any community to use force as a means of gaining its political ends is not admitted in the British Commonwealth. Since the beginning of 1945 the Jews have implicitly claimed this right and have supported by an organized campaign of lawlessness, murder and sabotage their contention that, whatever other interests might be concerned, nothing should be allowed to stand in the way of a Jewish State and free Jewish immigration into Palestine. It is true that large numbers of Jews do not today attempt to defend the crimes that have been committed in the name of these political aspirations. They recognize the damage caused to their good name by these methods in the court of world opinion. Nevertheless, the Jewish community of Palestine still publicly refuses its help to the Administration in suppressing terrorism, on the ground that the Administration's policy is opposed to Jewish interests. The converse of this attitude is clear, and its result, however much the Jewish leaders themselves may not wish it, has been to give active encouragement to the dissidents and freer scope to their activities"
