Author Topic: Three High School Girls Beheaded in Sulawesi (Read 1371 times)

Maverick · « **Reply #45 on:** November 02, 2005, 01:53:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding

know that I have no sympathy with extremism of any kind. I believe Muslims should be pro-active and aggressively fight those who push messages of hate, within their communities and culture.

And while they do that, I'll do the same in mine.

OMG!!!! Dowding said something I actually agree with!!!!

Until the practitioners of islam get fully involved in condemning and actively fighting extremism conducted in the name of their religion I can't take them seriously as a civilized form of religion. Making a choice to do nothing is IMO a decision to aid those committing crimes in their name.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 02, 2005, 02:13:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
White supremacists /KKK/ new nazis are Muslims?

(handsomehunk)

Those groups blow stuff up on a regular basis?

They are a national embarrassment/sad joke, not real terrorists.

Seagoon · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2005, 02:50:23 PM »

I hope you guys don't mind if I answer two posts in one...

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
How many over the years have those IRA nutballs killed, and then how many how the islamic nutballs killed over the same time period? (Not that I agree that really fit the christian terrorst bill very well)

I bet the islamic nutballs come in WAY ahead.

There is no comparison between them.

"The authoritative Lost Lives book estimates that of the 3,665 people killed as a result of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, 1,778 of them (48.5%) were killed by the IRA. Of those 1,778 killed by the IRA, 642 were civilian non-combatants." [Irish Examiner]

The IRA, for all their evil efforts, ultimately killed fewer civilians that Al Qaeda did in a single day.

Quote

Got any links on the uganda thing? I have never heard of them. Are they a terrorist group? Whats their kill tally?From what Seagoon is saying that don't sound very christian.

GTO, I hadn't heard of them either until a couple of years ago. I first heard of them during a lunch with one of the directors of missions for the Orthodox Presbyterian Church who has taught in seminaries in Uganda and worked closely with the Presbyterian church of Uganda. The LRA has caused immense suffering in the Northern portions of Uganda and frequently attacks churches and kills pastors.

Explaining their theology is impossible because it's constantly in flux, for the most part it's tribal animism, combined with "Kony as God" worship, with bits and pieces of other religions mixed in randomly according to Kony's predilections.

For an article on this group originally published in The Independent, click on the following link: The Mystic and His Brutal Army of Child Soldiers

Now to the other question - Maverick, you asked the following question:

Quote

I am very curious as to your wording here. Are you saying there is actual doubt (nukes rantings in the past do not constitute doubt) as to whether or not Catholics are Christians?

Obviously I want to be careful here, but this of course is the issue at the heart of the Reformation. If you happen to believe that the Solas of the Reformation (Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Scripture Alone, Christ Alone, To God Alone be the Glory) are critical and foundational components of the Christian faith, then you are compelled to conclude that groups that deny them are not Christian. Additionally, the Anathemas of the Roman Catholic church on those who hold to the Solas that were authoratatively pronounced at the Council of Trent have never been officially repudiated. Therefore the differences between these two groups are too profound to be simply ignored.

To tell the truth, this isn't the forum (or the thread) for a full-orbed debate of this topic. In order to even begin to intelligently have it, certain things not present here would be necessary. Which is one of the many reasons I steered well clear of the aforementioned Nuke thread.

Please rest assured Mav, that I didn't make the comment to simply Catholic bash.

- SEAGOON

Maverick · « **Reply #48 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:01:38 PM »

Interesting. So in other words Chritianity is determined based on those documents and actual faith in the same God, Son etc. does not have determinate meaning.

ChickenHawk · « **Reply #49 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:23:15 PM »

Before this thread takes a header, let me say that I think your post was well said Dowding.

A lot of people seem to be painting with an awfully broad brush these days.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #50 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:30:51 PM »

Dowding is painting with broad brush himself.

With a few exceptions I don't think most people in this thread are saying all Muslims are bad.

I even noted it in one of my posts, just that most terrorists right now are Muslim.

No one here is stupid; we should not have to state in every post about Muslim terrorism, that we understand not all Muslims are bad.

That should be obvious.

Dowding is on target about extremists though they suck no mater what they claim to believe in.

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #51 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:31:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Masherbrum
This is why my eyes will NEVER see The Pyramids, Jerusalem, in person.

U can visit Jerusalem. It`s an interesting place to visit. Not long ago I eat in a restaurant with arafat`s picture on the wall,in the old city...sure sign of israeli oppression

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #52 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:34:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ~Caligula~

Do you have some kind of point?

It really helps if you post it.

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #53 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:35:59 PM »

hit wrong button...doh

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #54 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:37:37 PM »

i hit the wrong button...doh

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:38:33 PM »

LOL Looks like you hit a wrong again or the right one to many times!

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #56 on:** November 02, 2005, 04:06:17 PM »

..lemme just blame it on the muslims

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #57 on:** November 02, 2005, 06:16:51 PM »

I take it back..

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/640973.html

fartwinkle · « **Reply #58 on:** November 02, 2005, 11:03:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
White supremacists /KKK/ new nazis are Muslims?

(handsomehunk)

KKK are not terrorist they are simply idiots and the same goes for the skinheads nazi wanna be's

Seagoon · « **Reply #59 on:** November 02, 2005, 11:43:35 PM »

Hi Mav,

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Interesting. So in other words Chritianity is determined based on those documents and actual faith in the same God, Son etc. does not have determinate meaning.

My apologies if any of this is unclear. No, it's not a matter of the documents, its a matter of the substance of the faith those documents recapitulate. At the heart of the Reformation were major differences over foundational Christian doctrines.

For instance, the critical question in the Christian faith is still the same one asked by the Jailer in Acts 16:30 "What must I do to be saved"? The Reformers maintained that all that is necessary in order to be Saved is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, because it is faith alone that unites us to Christ, and it His saving work alone that is efficacious in salvation. His death washes away our sins, and His obedience establishes our righteousness before God. Hence they maintained that Justification is by Faith Alone. The Roman church on the other hand maintained that it is Faith and our Good Works which will justify us before God. The Reformed countered that to trust in our own works to any degree will not avail in the final judgment.

There were of course plenty of others, the most important of them being whether the Bible Alone was to be our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, or whether the Church and Tradition were equally important, and the ability to decide these matters authoratively was vested by God in an infalible Roman Magisterium.

True, both Catholics and Protestants agree on issues like the Trinity and the substance of the first 5 ecumenical councils, but when it comes to issues like authority and soteriology (the theology of salvation), there are major differences. Hence historically the Papacy considered Protestants to be Heretics and Schismatics and thus no part of the church of Christ, and vice versa. There has been a lot of detante since then, and the differences between a theologically liberal Catholic and a theologically liberal Protestant are hardly worth mentioning. But there are still vast differences between Evangelical theology and the Roman Catholic theology contained in official RC creedal documents.

If you want to discuss the issue further via email, I'm happy to do so, but I really don't want to hijack the thread or get into a who's right and who's wrong here. What would be the point considering even the foundational issues that Catholics and Protestants agree on, i.e. the existence of God, the deity of Christ, the authority of Scripture, and so on are all definitely up for grabs around here...

Heck, around here you can't even get a consensus on the proposition Ex Nihilo, Nihil fit (Out of nothing, nothing comes).

- SEAGOON