What a Crock!

[Gunslinger]

This is really starting to anger me.  This ACLU commie bullcrap is one day going to go too far.  People really need to start opening there eyes to crap like this and start drawing a line with our universities.  I especially love the line  "As a state employee, you and I have a responsibility to make sure we are providing an environment that does not put undue pressure on any member of our halls in terms of religion, political parties, etc.," Yea like they'd probably stop him if he was organizing an anti-war ralley.

Bible study policy raises ire
UW-Eau Claire resident assistant can't lead group
By RAQUEL RUTLEDGE
rrutledge@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Nov. 3, 2005
Every Tuesday last school year, Lance Steiger took a Bible to the basement of his dormitory at UW-Eau Claire and led a small group of friends in a discussion about a particular chapter or verse.

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Steiger, a resident assistant and a junior at the time, said he was never told he could not lead a Bible study in the dorm where he worked helping students adjust to college classes and campus life.

But in July, he got a letter from school administrators warning him that if he continued to hold Bible studies in his dorm this year, he would face disciplinary action.

The issue has spawned a flurry of heated exchanges between Steiger, school officials, civil liberties groups, and at least one U.S. representative who on Thursday called the university's position "outrageous and un-American."

Essentially state employees
The university forbids resident assistants from hosting religious or political activities in the dorms where they work to ensure that R.A.'s are accessible to all students, said spokesman Mike Rindo. Resident assistants are essentially state employees. They receive free room and board and a $675-per-semester stipend in exchange for nurturing and counseling dorm residents.

"R.A.s are free to engage in these activities as long as they are not doing it in an environment where they have supervisory roles over other students," Rindo said.

In a Sept. 22 e-mail to Steiger, Deborah Newman, associate director of housing and residence life, elaborated on the university's position.

"As a state employee, you and I have a responsibility to make sure we are providing an environment that does not put undue pressure on any member of our halls in terms of religion, political parties, etc.," Newman wrote. "As a 'leader' of a Bible study, one of the roles is to gather and encourage people to attend. These two roles have a strong possibility to conflict in your hall."

The university's position is backed by a similar written policy at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and is supported by the Freedom from Religion Foundation in Madison.

"There's free speech, but this isn't free," said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. "This amounts to taxpayer subsidy of worship."

Chris Ahmuty, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, said his organization is looking into the issue. Ahmuty agreed with the university's position that state employees should not be organizing religious or political events on work time or place.

"The function of the R.A. is almost like a big brother or big sister," Ahmuty said. "When they're in the dorm they're an R.A. 24/7. . . . This isn't like a jail situation where students have no other alternative. They can go off campus."

Only a handful of the school's 120 resident assistants have been hosting Bible studies in the dorms, Rindo said. Steiger said he knows of more than 10 who either hold a class in their room or elsewhere in dorms.

The school's policy, which also applies to political and ideological activities, is communicated to new resident assistants during a verbal orientation and is not in writing, Rindo said.

Steiger sees the ban as an infringement on his First Amendment rights.

"I work for the school. It's my job, but I do have personal time. I should be able to talk about whatever I want to talk about in my own room. It's my home. It's where I live."

Steiger sought help with his cause from the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, a Philadelphia-based non-profit organization that defends freedom of speech, religious liberty and other rights.

The organization sent a letter Oct. 10 to UW-Eau Claire's interim chancellor, Vicki Lord Larson, calling the ban on R.A.-led Bible studies unlawful and an "immoral restriction of religious liberty."

"Unless they're on the clock 168 hours a week, which they're not, they have dual capacity as do all state employees," said David French, president of the foundation. "They have private lives. . . . We're not talking about Bible studies as part of an official R.A. function. We're talking about on their own time a function that is completely optional."

The issue caught the attention Thursday of U.S. Rep. Mark Green (R-Green Bay), a UW-Eau Claire alumnus.

Green wrote a letter to UW System president Kevin Reilly urging him to investigate policies at other University of Wisconsin campuses and to "rid the UW system of this deplorable mandate."

"The question is are we going to follow them when they go to bars? Are we going to conduct room-to-room searches to make sure nobody is praying?" Green said in an interview. "They do not surrender their Constitutional rights just because they're R.A.'s."

UW-Eau Claire officials said they are examining past and current policies and will respond to Steiger's complaint in the coming weeks.

A taxpayer subsidy of worship????? give me a break.

EDIT:  oops forgot the link

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

"Unless they're on the clock 168 hours a week, which they're not"

Actually, they are.
-SW

[Mickey1992]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yea like they'd probably stop him if he was organizing an anti-war ralley.

If the RA did it in the dorm, they probably would stop him/her.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
"Unless they're on the clock 168 hours a week, which they're not"

Actually, they are.
-SW

Wow I didn't know we got labor that cheap in America.  At $675 a semester that equates to $0.33 an hour.  So does that mean he's not allowed to go to church or drink or have relations with a consenting adult because he's "on the clock"

Micky what does that have to do with anything.  He works for that room that the school provides him.  As long as he's not making people attend than it should be his own business.

[GtoRA2]

Is he forcing anyone to come? If not this is BS he should be able to do it as long as he is not forcing people to attend.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

As a Resident Advisor they're job is to be on hand for anyone on their floor at any time that needs help unless other arrangements have been made with other RAs.

You should look up how much room and board costs at a college, then add that into the $675/month - its quite expensive.
-SW

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
As a Resident Advisor they're job is to be on hand for anyone on their floor at any time that needs help unless other arrangements have been made with other RAs.

You should look up how much room and board costs at a college, then add that into the $675/month - its quite expensive.
-SW

So because of this you are saying that the school has the right to abridge his freedom of religion?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

No, I am saying he is an employee of the state. While in employment, he can't lead anything racially/politically/religiously driven. Quite clear that if he did it off campus, he'd have been fine. Or if he just participated but did not lead/organize it.
-SW

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
No, I am saying he is an employee of the state. While in employment, he can't lead anything racially/politically/religiously driven. Quite clear that if he did it off campus, he'd have been fine. Or if he just participated but did not lead/organize it.
-SW

Yea and I'm sure they'd crack down on a Muslim RA leading prayers in his room.  Serioulsy you buy into that?  Again what a crock, this is a clear violation of civil rights and no one really cares cause the kid is a christian because OBVIOUSLY this clouds his judgment as an RA and there's NO WAY he can be non-biased when dealing with his dutys and his religion just HAS to interfere with his job.

[midnight Target]

If you think this is a crock you probably didn't read it.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
If you think this is a crock you probably didn't read it.

if you don't think this is a crock you probably never read the constitution.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yea and I'm sure they'd crack down on a Muslim RA leading prayers in his room.  Serioulsy you buy into that?  Again what a crock, this is a clear violation of civil rights and no one really cares cause the kid is a christian because OBVIOUSLY this clouds his judgment as an RA and there's NO WAY he can be non-biased when dealing with his dutys and his religion just HAS to interfere with his job.

Has nothing to do with his being Christian, has everything to do with him organizing and leading a religious gathering on campus while he is on-call.

You are simply choosing to be offended because you appear to be looking for a persecution here.
-SW

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Has nothing to do with his being Christian, has everything to do with him organizing and leading a religious gathering on campus while he is on-call.

You are simply choosing to be offended because you appear to be looking for a persecution here.
-SW

What does being on call have to do with this?  So you are saying that being an RA he has to give up his religious freedoms?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

No, but he has to abide by the school's policy.

Like I said, do it off campus or have someone else organize it and then participate. Problem solved.
-SW

[midnight Target]

paaaleeeez!

You would be OK with an RA holding a Democratic party meeting? Republican? Libertarian? Cretin Druid? Muslim? Jewish? Satanic?

Unfortunate that the conservative movement in this Country thinks special favors need to be given to certain folks just because they are Christian.
Frankly I'm glad that the person put in charge of making sure 18 year olds have a smooth transition into college life are not trying to force some kind of personal agenda on them. It only makes sense...

oh BTW read the establishment clause.