Author Topic: Who is lying about Iraq?  (Read 1012 times)

Offline Maverick

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2005, 10:03:01 PM »
I belive a lie is defined as KNOWINGLY making a statement that is false. Please provide proof of the knowingly part. This is not to say I am all for the parties involved. Just for clarification.
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Offline Yeager

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2005, 01:06:31 AM »
I made a decision over two years ago.  I decided then to invest my support behind the decision to use armed forces to clear Iraq of a terrorist regime and to pave the way for moderate arabs to reclaim Iraq and propell it out of tryanny   into something hopefully better.  I also decided that once I made the commitment I would not change my mind, barring evidence of conspiracy.

My commitment stands firm.

cromaw, you are quick to confuse being wrong with lying.  you should be required to have evidence of lying before making the accusation.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 01:09:53 AM by Yeager »
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Offline Red Tail 444

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2005, 11:12:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Denny_Crane!
It's a good feeling, you know, to shoot a bad guy. Something you Democrats would never understand. Americans... we're homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys.


So just who, exactly, have you shot?

Shooting your loadinto a towel thinking about Chris Hannity does not count :rofl

Offline Red Tail 444

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2005, 11:14:35 AM »
From FoxNews:

"Almost six in 10 — 57 percent — said they do not think the Bush administration has high ethical standards and the same portion says President Bush is not honest, an AP-Ipsos poll found. Just over four in 10 say the administration has high ethical standards and that Bush is honest.

"... white evangelicals were most likely to believe Bush is honest (Read as: The Brainwashed) "

Offline Clifra Jones

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2005, 02:18:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
From FoxNews:

"... white evangelicals were most likely to believe Bush is honest (Read as: The Brainwashed) "


This is why the Left will continue to lose national elections. Typical condescending, elitist attitude.

You probably read and believe all those left-wing kook site don't you. Talk about Brainwashed!

Offline Clifra Jones

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2005, 02:33:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
I seem to remember a certain Tony Blair saying that Saddam possessed WMD that could be deployed within 45 minutes.


Don't recall anyone from this government making this statement. Take that up with Mr. Blair.

Quote

It was the possession of weaponized WMD, that was field ready that was deemed to be the immediate threat.


Never heard it quantified quite that way either.

Consider these shocking facts:

• Found: 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

• Found: 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons

• Found: Roadside bomb loaded with sarin gas

• Found: 1,000 radioactive materials--ideal for radioactive dirty bombs

• Found: 17 chemical warheads--some containing cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin

So tell me how 1.7 tons of enriched uranium is not a threat? Wrap some of that around some C4 and tell me that is not a WMD? Just the panic that this would cause would be devastating to any major city.

Was that a possibility? Maybe, maybe not. I know one thing for sure. It's not a possibility now.

Offline Dowding

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2005, 03:13:07 PM »
Firstly, radioactive sources capable of being used in dirty bombs can be found in any University - I used plenty myself as part of my Physics degree. They are also common in hospitals. I would suggest that many of the '1,000' sources removed from Iraq fall into this category.

Secondly, nuclear material is easily traced unlike common explosives. If Saddam had chosen to supply an insurgent group with material for a dirty bomb, he would have effectively signed his own death warrant. The man may have been a genocidal maniac, but he wasn't suicidal.

Thirdly, the Uranium found was low enriched material. It was obtained from the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center, which had been annually inspected by the IAEA for several years. Their audit essentially consisted of an annual material stock check and they were aware of its existance.

It was removed to prevent proliferation, amid reports of looting of the facility after Iraq fell. You might argue that prior to the coalition invading, it was far more secure than after, hence its removal from the country.

Sarin gas does not require an ellaborate manufacturing facility. I seem to remember the incident you refer to was the detonation of an old artillery shell.

Given that Iraq once had significant amounts of chemical agent during the Iran-Iraq war, its hardly surprising there was some left-over. How does 1500 gallons and a few rusting shells compare to the huge amount Iraq once had, and then subsequently was forced to destroy?

Maybe your definition of WMD differs from mine - and I think my goal post comment is still relevant. Mass destruction isn't disruption of the rush hour or inconveniencing commuters - its murder en masse. A nuclear explosion in a city centre or a dispersal of chemical agents that maims and kills large numbers of the population. Where is the evidence that this could be achieved?

Importantly, and I think this is where your misconception lies, there has to be a method of deployment. Tony Blair may not be your representative of executive power, but he was a key supporter of Bush. Bush relied on him towing the line and by having a significant international ally, it lent his arguments a more international and balanced gravitas. He publically quoted from a dossier that stated:

Quote
...chemical and biological munitions "could be with military units and ready for firing within 45 minutes."  


The WMD argument for war was flimsy and has not been substanciated since. Even the staunchest of proponents of this argument now maintain they were just wrong, but no lies were told.

Except those that would maintain the possession of a can of mace spray was a material breach of the regulations Iraq was party to concerning WMD control...
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Offline Hangtime

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2005, 03:18:37 PM »
Gee. I wonder what all that 'Gulf Syndrome' stuff was that's been steadily killing our troops that served in GW1 was...

Nah, they never had WMD.

GHWB sold Saddam Kool Aid, not nerve gas.
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Offline T0J0

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2005, 03:23:36 PM »
No one lied about WMD, some people are just trying to re-write history to win the next election.

Offline Dowding

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2005, 03:34:14 PM »
You mean the syndrome that many veterans blame on the government(s) for pumping them full of anti-bodies or the military for the extensive use of depleted uranium rounds? Sounds like GWS isn't exactly fully understood or attributed to one cause or another.

As for GW1, I seem to remember rather alot of disarmanent happening in the 10 years afterwards.

We know they HAD WMD. We bloody gave them the capability to deploy it 20 years ago. The question was did they have it 2003...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 03:36:55 PM by Dowding »
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Offline john9001

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2005, 03:54:18 PM »
the WMD's are buried in the desert, saddam will use them as a plea bargain to save his life.

Offline Maverick

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2005, 04:44:08 PM »
Dowding, That was a nice little "story" you told there about the nuclear materials being tracable. Perhaps you could lend your expertise to the Russians who I understand are having trouble maintaining control or even proper inventory over their nuclear aresenal. I suppose it should be quite easy given it's all so easily traced, right?
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
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Offline Dowding

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2005, 05:26:45 PM »
Take any sample of radioactive material and you can analyse it to the nth degree. You can work out how it was stored and the nature of the storage materials - even the origin of the materials by geographical region.

Mass spectrometry yields information about sample age and impurity content, as well as isotropic and mass ratio information. You can use this to effectively work out where the material came from.

Western governments have developed highly effective methods of preserving conventional forensic evidence (fibres, finger prints etc) even in the face of an atomic blast. They are using all these techniques to slowly get all nuclear material back into secure Russian hands.

So, if Saddam had given material to a nutcase group and they used it, the trail would lead straight back to him. And I don't think we need to elaborate on the response.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 05:58:01 PM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline john9001

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2005, 06:52:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
So, if Saddam had given material to a nutcase group and they used it, the trail would lead straight back to him. And I don't think we need to elaborate on the response.



the UN would send him a nasty letter?

Offline Staga

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Who is lying about Iraq?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2005, 04:12:14 AM »
You would give recipe for newest WMDs and sell him some from your own storages like you did earlier?