What do you guys think of Lieberman, is his being Jewish an issue?

[Toad]

Originally posted by StSanta:
So, Toad, you American pseudo-intellectual, just what the hell do you do for a living?

Ahem, I think Ram made me a "pseudo-DOCTOR"...a P-PHD? Since he's already got that rank, I'll have to ask him the correct initials!    (Image removed from quote.)

Right now Santa, I fly the 737-800 for an American Imperialist Opportunist Major Airline. I just got my "20 year pin and cheap gold watch" too.

Prior to that I flew the RC-135 for the American Imperialist Opportunist Air Force as a "spy-plane" pilot. I have seen your country from the air a few times. I went by it a lot, but the rain usually kept me from seeing much of it.    (Image removed from quote.)

It was a fun job. I've been off the coast of every Communist country that HAS a coast at one time or another.

The Russkies shot down a few KAL airliners apparently thinking they had me or one of my squadron mates in the bag. Or else they just have it in for KAL.   (Image removed from quote.)

Because of the nature of my job <"hurry up and wait"> I read. A lot. I always have. Talk about weird, I read De Seversky's book (Victory Through Airpower) when I was about 15. Douhet and Mitchell not long after that. I always knew I was going to be an American Opportunist Imperialist Warmonger Pilot.   (Image removed from quote.)

By coincidence, I pinned on my wings on December 7th. Sort of makes one's responsibility all the more clear. Lord, that was a looooooooong time ago.

Anyway, it's been fun sparring with you. But don't take off the gloves just yet.    (Image removed from quote.)

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Toad]

Originally posted by StSanta:

There's no wearing you out, I see. Usually, my persistence helps me out in these matters, but not here  

It's just the story of the "old bull and the young bull"   (Image removed from quote.)

and I gather you know *exactly* when to and not to post a link  

If I stumble across info that I think will help clarify or provide pertinent info I ALWAYS post a link. Like any other person, I tend to clip that part that will provide a strong counterpoint and PERHAPS trigger enough interest that others will go and read and become even more informed on the subject.

Hm, I don't doubt Douhet's intention as you've laid them out.

Read Douhet for yourself. I think you will find him interesting. <See Giulio Douhet, The Command of the Air, Joseph P. Harahan and Richard H. Kohn, editors (Washington, D.C., 1983)>...and here's another quick overview if you can get to the site:
 http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1986/sep-oct/eula.html

BTW, I've been to the "valor and horror" site. I'm now looking for tapes of the programs. Interesting site.


I.e more death in lesser time?

Slow military bureaucracy does not excuse anything seen on that picture, IMHO.

Yes, that's probably exactly it. I'm sure there were those saying "we need a larger bomber force"  or "we have to hit them 7 days in a row in the same place". You've never been in a military staff meeting, have you?   (Image removed from quote.)

Well, they knew how succesful the Germans had been. Hell, the Brits knew exactly how their civilian population had reacted, and still they pushed on.

Of course! My point exactly! EVERY military organization thinks they can do it better than the other guy! They are SURE this time, we'll do it right and show them how its done.

Whole new game after the Americans showed what *one* plane with one nuke could do to a city.

Yes, indeed. But that result is what they were TRYING to achieve with "strategic bombardment" <iron bombs> in Europe. In the end, the Bombing Survey said it didn't work.

You may find it hard to believe that they didn't see it wasn't working earlier. Having been IN the military, I find that EASY to believe  (Image removed from quote.)  Not necessarily agree with, but believe.

What was the first one again?

The troll on Danish War Heroes and Danish Altruism.   (Image removed from quote.)

BTW, "altruism" isn't really related to just having smart, generous folks like Bohr.  (Image removed from quote.)

As I said, yeh the Danish government were semi traitors, betraying their people, but the people at the time really weren't that pleased with having the Jerries around.

Not really the point. In the pre-war years, there appears to be a reliance on another achievement of neutrality. The US was guilty of the same thing, but had two huge oceans as frontiers to buy time to mobilize. However, had the Japanese been able to follow up Pearl Harbor and land troops on the mainland, does anyone doubt that the US would have fought rather than collaborated?

I think all citizens must take ultimate responsibility for their government's actions. Good or bad. <Believe me, I DO NOT support everything my government has done or is presently doing. I do stay in contact with my representatives, too.>

Go ahead, punk. Make my day.

LOL! you watch too many decadent Hollywood movies!

Hm, I've reread it, and it still sounds like classical isolationist US philosophy.

Not at all. "America's orientation toward all nations be one of "peace and harmony." Peace, not war; commerce, not conquest"...

"It should be the highest ambition of every American to extend his views beyond himself, and to bear in mind that his conduct will not only affect himself, his country, and his immediate posterity; but that its influence may be coextensive with the world, and stamp political happiness or misery on ages yet unborn."

We haven't done that...but I wish we had.  (Image removed from quote.)


I think you're right, and that your politicians are way outta control and outta touch with the average American. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that."

Worse, our politicians are stupid, vain and greedy. Sort of like all the rest in the world. I see none with the true purpose of making the world a better place.

Could be argued that it's "not my problem". Or that it happened in the first place because of the isolationist philosophy. Or that it is always the duty of the strong to protect the weak. Or a myriad of other arguments justifying other approaches.

Let's see..let me get this straight...you wanted the US to be the world's policeman BEFORE the war? We were a second rate power before the war! Heck, nobody would listen to Wilson at Versailles! Wonder what it would have been like if the had let him write the deal alone? No reparations and all the 14 points?

Yep, let the French do it, they wouldn't mind. Or the Brits, they like influence too.

They're welcome to it. I sure don't want us involved!

Remind me to tell you the joke about the Brits, French, Italians, Germans and Swiss splitting up the duties in the world. You probably have heard it.

Gotta run, going to miss my flight!

[Toad]

 oops, sorry, doubled

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Naso]

Good post Toad, <S>!

ehmm...

Can you please write down the joke?

 

Remind me to tell you the joke about the Brits, French, Italians, Germans and Swiss splitting up the duties in the world. You probably have heard it.

[Toad]

Naso, it's an old joke..I forget when I first heard it.

What is Heaven and what is Hell?

Heaven is where:

The British are the Police

The French are the Chefs

The Germans are the Mechanics

The Italians are the Lovers

The Swiss are the Bankers

Hell is where:

The British are the Chefs

The French are the Mechanics

The Germans are the Police

The Italians are the Bankers

The Swiss are the Lovers


 

[Naso]

LOL

[Ripsnort]

Hehe, American "imperialist opportunistic" Airlines, ROTFLOL Toad.

Toad, two things, Glad to see you flying Boeing A/C (worked for Boeing since 1979) and <S> and thanks for serving our country.

Ripsnort

[Toad]

Rip,

Just got a 757/767 bid too! School in Oct.

I've almost always flown Boeings, for many, many thousands of hours now. They always bring you home; got to love that "belts and suspenders" engineering philosophy.

I did have a brief, intense love affair with a Lockheed 1011, but she grew old and sickly. The Doctors just couldn't keep her healthy. No new parts, no miracle cures.  

As for serving, that's an "aw, shucks". Just doing my bit. Thanks, though.