Level bombers and dive bombers

[Morpheus]

Level bombers should only be allowed to drop bombs from F6 mode/when in bombs sight. The new sight is as idiot proof as you can get, yet we still have countless droves of players, including older players diving bombing FH's and CV's , you name it in formations of level bombers. You old players are teaching them that this is the "norm". That its the way its saposed to be done. What's the mater with you? I spent the morning flying around at 15k in 1 flight of b17s porking troops at 5 sectors worth of bases droping 1 salvo of 3 250lb bombs on only the barracks with 100% hit accuracy. I hardly ever get into bombers. If I can do it, so can the rest of you.

There should also be a time delay on bomb damage. If you die within seconds after droping your bombs, there is no damage done from those bombs. I think Hitech was working on this or even tried it a while back. IMO its a great idea and should be implemented in the MA.

The current game play needs to be looked at  dealt with, not just *****ed about. I think that if these few things were changed it might help to fix a peice of it.

[SuperDud]

I know the this will inevatably be a "BK whine" but I've felt this way since I started playing AH. Like Morph stated bombings simple. My 1st few months I was in the =Ghost= bomber wing. It took me all of 2 weeks to get near 100% accuracy. I really wish HTC would consider implementing the F6 rule. I've seen film of lanc diving from 10k, hitting 350mph+ to dive bomb. It doesn't "cheat" anybody or handycap anyone. It just makes them use an already easy system, correctly.

PS: To the guys of Ghost squad, we always did it the right way and it was a blast:D

[Schatzi]

Cant hit squat with Buffs. Level or dive bombing, even though to be honest, i never tried dive bombing in heavies. Maybe i should. Just once. To know what im talking about.

But i have fun flying bombers. Had an exceptionally good night taking Lancs up to 25K. Dropped all my ordenance on 4 or 5 different fields. Proudly report a barrack, a soft gun and an ammo bunker destroyed. Proceeded to land my main bomber (drones somehow didnt make the dive back down) on home airfield. 2.5 hours of the very best entertainment on Squad channel.......


If i see dive bombing heavies in MA, i try to ping tham all as fast as possible. Thx for the ammo conserving kills.

[SuperDud]

Schatzi, the thing is I could explain it to you and it would take you 5 mins to get a feel for it. MOST are just to lazy to take the time to learn. IMO, it's the simplest thing in the game to do. Well, besides dive bombing them lol.

I will add I'm not saying bombing overall is easy. It can be challanging getting into a heavily defended target. But the bomb scope aspect is simple.

[Curval]

I am deadly accurate using the bomb site....can't hit squat dive bombing in a jabo so I assume it would be no different in a buff.  Just don't know...never even bothered to try it.

[Pooface]

Originally posted by Curval
I am deadly accurate using the bomb site....can't hit squat dive bombing in a jabo so I assume it would be no different in a buff.  Just don't know...never even bothered to try it.

its true, it far easier in the sight. come to think of it i've actually never seen any dive bombing lancs or any heavies at all. low level sure, but never dive bomb:huh . anyway tho, i do agree with morph, it would be cool to make every plane that has it, use the bombsite. exceptions for this would be the a20 and ju88, both used as attack planes (ju88's were designed to withstand dive bombing)

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Schatzi
Cant hit squat with Buffs. ...snip

Schatzi, the "trick" is so simple its almost embarassing -- and i cant miss what will likely be my ONLY opportunity to teach you something!


The easiest mistake to make is to not watch flight speed after calibration. For simplicity's sake, its nice to be at steady speed, stablilized for a given throttle setting. Even if that's not possible, if you watch E6B after calibration you can jockey the throttle to keep the buff speed right at the calibration speed. Remember that moving the sight means rudder input, whcih can slow you a shade -- and will deviate to the bombsight view laterally DURING the turn (as the fuselage rotates). If you calibrate early enough, you wont have to worry much about that, or the associated problem of drones sliding out of triangle formation with extreme maneuvers right before drop.

If you cant get the E6B speed perfectly matched to calibration speed at drop , do a rough estimate adjustment by dropping a little early or late, as appropriate.

Like Morph said, its the easiest thing in the game.




PS. I vote for F6 only drops from level bombers. The game is compulsively careful and accurate with fighter performance, aircraft loadouts,  and ordinance physics. Theres just no reason it should be so very far from reality in the way level bombers can be used. I mean, can ANYONE find documentation of level bombers dropping form pilot positions and ignoring bombadier/'bombsight positions?

[Darkish]

Fond memories of manual calibration, wind, no drones etc .... there used to be an art to it.

[Morpheus]

My biggest problem with suicide buffs is how they'll fly feet above the water evading most or all of the puffy ack and wait until they're within range then pulling up and releasing all bombs while getting torn to shreds and being sent back to the tower while their bombs are left flying through the air still live and active, and most times will do damage to or sink a CV. That is not game play.

What these players dont understand is how easy it is to sink a CV  from 10-15k. Or how easy it is to bomb strat, be it hangers, ord, barracks or fuel from 15k and more. Its also far more effective mind you. There are far less fighters willing to climb to 15+k now a days to intercept bombers. There deffencive capabilities are that good. Heck, you dont even have to climb to 10k if you're concerned about t/t/t.

And darkish is right. It used to take a certain level of skill to bomb from high alt, more so when bombing above the wind layer. Now, with the way the new sight is designed there is absolutely no reason for buffs to be suiciding strat, or CV's, and dive bombing on fields. Just calibrate for speed, keep an eye on your E6B making sure both your air speed and calibration speed coincide with one another and you're guaranteed near 100% accuracy.

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by Morpheus
My biggest problem with suicide buffs is how they'll fly feet above the water evading most or all of the puffy ack and wait until they're within range then pulling up and releasing all bombs while getting torn to shreds and being sent back to the tower while their bombs are left flying through the air still live and active, and most times will do damage to or sink a CV. That is not game play.
 

Uhm, I hate to be the one to point this out, but that is GAME PLAY.  Realistic ? - no, definitely not.  Gamey? Definitely yes.  But then, after all, and it's been stated here nan kai mo, this is a game. . . .

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by SKJohn
Uhm, I hate to be the one to point this out, but that is GAME PLAY.  Realistic ? - no, definitely not.  Gamey? Definitely yes.  But then, after all, and it's been stated here nan kai mo, this is a game. . . .

Yeah but this GAME PLAY hurts the game. And as Simaril stated, they put so much focus on realistic handling, ordinace, etc that it would only make since to make the bombing aspect realistic also. After all, many of the "war winners" are also the same ones who hound for more realism and fly the bombers. It's just making it more realistic and fair.

[gatt]

Morph,

we have posted about diving level-bombers many times. HTC cannot be unaware of this issue. This is indeed one of the most game-ish features of AH, togheter with the way level bombers can sink CVs form 5K while fighters are shot down by CV miles and miles away.

Those issues are probably not priorities for HTC. There is no other explanation.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Simaril
The easiest mistake to make is to not watch flight speed after calibration. For simplicity's sake, its nice to be at steady speed, stablilized for a given throttle setting. Even if that's not possible, if you watch E6B after calibration you can jockey the throttle to keep the buff speed right at the calibration speed. Remember that moving the sight means rudder input, whcih can slow you a shade -- and will deviate to the bombsight view laterally DURING the turn (as the fuselage rotates). If you calibrate early enough, you wont have to worry much about that, or the associated problem of drones sliding out of triangle formation with extreme maneuvers right before drop.

If you cant get the E6B speed perfectly matched to calibration speed at drop , do a rough estimate adjustment by dropping a little early or late, as appropriate.

Like Morph said, its the easiest thing in the game.

 

What he said.

Generally I will take off and once airborne reduce to Manifold Pressure 40.  Then, I level off at about 15k...sometimes more, sometimes less.  Try to level off at least a half sector from target...this will enable your air speed to equal drop speed without "needing" to check the E6B.

Also...when holding down the "Y" key on your drop point...hold it for at least 10 seconds.

....and don't open your doors until you are a split second from your first bomb being released.  The opening of the doors can slow you down enough to make pin-point accuracy impossible if done too soon.

I learned to bomb from MRPLUTO...he's darn good at it.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by gatt
Morph,

we have posted about diving level-bombers many times. HTC cannot be unaware of this issue. This is indeed one of the most game-ish features of AH, togheter with the way level bombers can sink CVs form 5K while fighters are shot down by CV miles and miles away.

Those issues are probably not priorities for HTC. There is no other explanation.

Im fully aware of how many times its been posted. Yet nothing's been done. Why?

As for you, Skjohn, what that is is not game play. Its foolish, unrealistic garbage.  I am all for having fun, and a strict, 100% realistic game is not always fun. When thing's become too realistic they aren't fun anymore. After all this is a game, and games are meant to be played for the enjoyment. There is a point when gamey features such as diving bombing CV's, FH's ect in external view with B17's or what have you just doesnt cut it. That's not fun and its not fair to the rest of the players who are doing it the right way. Im so sick of hearing "well why dont you deffend your CV's and FH's." Bull. You all know as well as I do how difficult and virtually impossible it becomes when you have lines of buffs' stacked one on top of another diving in to kill a CV just to say they killed a CV. Or pony's dropping from 18k compressed and pointed at a Fighter hanger only to drop bombs seconds before they auger. You simply cannot deffend against crap like this.

The thing of it is, new players have no clue. They have no clue how idiot proof the bomb sights are. They have no idea what a jabo mission is. What its not is climbing to 18-20k going full throtle straight down releasing bombs before you die and reup to do it all over again.

Its simple, you die seconds after you release bombs. Those bombs do not do any damage.

And if you're going to level bomb, the only way you can drop bombs is to do so via the bomb sight.

Before you come back with a response, ask yourself, is this going to help game play or hurt it?

[Simaril]

Originally posted by SKJohn
Uhm, I hate to be the one to point this out, but that is GAME PLAY.  Realistic ? - no, definitely not.  Gamey? Definitely yes.  But then, after all, and it's been stated here nan kai mo, this is a game. . . .

You're missing the question -- glowing powerups for healing are part of gameplay in some environments, but AH isnt that kind of game. Its a simulation, not an arcade smashfest or real time "strategy" game.

Realism -- whether its the maximum speed of a coconut laden Swalbe (european, not african)*, or the way bombs' descent is affected by the plane's horizontal speed vector -- is the CORE of AH modelling. Just look at the arcane discussions of muzzle velocity and aircraft subvariant production runs in the Aircraft and Vehicle forums. AH2 rightly uses gamey stuff for its STRATEGY components, like field captures, but generally the game and its players prefer realism in flight issues.

Dive bombing lancs are not realistic, and are quintisentially gamey. Level buffs were not structurally designed for diving, and in AH structural failure from G forces seem undermodelled. "LancStukas"  detract from game play. They shouldnt be accepted, because the game would be just as playable and more fun without them.





*Note: this is both a Monty Python Holy Grail reference, AND a cool pun. It should be worth triple geek points. I'll be watching my email.