Author Topic: Australian Hanged for drug smuggling  (Read 2019 times)

Offline BigGun

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2005, 03:47:52 PM »
I bet that guy in singapore is dettered from ever trafficing drugs again.

Offline Sandman

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2005, 03:55:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BigGun
I bet that guy in singapore is dettered from ever trafficing drugs again.


I think you're confusing deterrance and anti-recidivism.
sand

Offline BigGun

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2005, 04:02:25 PM »
That too...

My guess is they have less people trafficing drugs with that penalty.

Offline Seagoon

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2005, 04:28:59 PM »
Jackal,

Can you provide any hard information regarding the claim that the government of Singapore is systematically working with Burmese drug cartels to distribute Heroin world-wide? I mean aside from the oft-repeated claim that their banks are laundering money, because for that matter almost every financial center in the world is moving some dirty money around.

Please understand, I'm willing to believe your claim, but I'd like something more concrete than repeated assertions.

Sandy, Lazs -

Obviously making the distribution of something that people desire illegal creates a black market and drives up the cost. This is true for instance of nuclear material, child porn, exotic animal parts, human organs, slaves, illegal immigrant labor and so on. But I would say that the answer to the problem of trading in these items (which in some cases is rampant) and the impossibility of suppressing it is not to simply legalize the trade of these items to suppress the cost. True the cost would go down as would much of the crime associated with it, but the trade in the item itself would increase dramatically creating exponentially more of what you didn't want in the first place.

So for instance, Laz, you mentioned abortion. No one has ever attempted to argue that the legalization of abortion reduced the overall number of abortions. Exactly the opposite has occurred, to the point where 1 in 3 pregnancies in the United States ends in abortion. We have literally gone from thousands a year, to millions. If the practice was immoral to begin with, legalizing it did nothing to help that situation.

Unlike Canabis, narcotics are not things that most people can use recreationally, one is rarely an occasional social crack smoker, and to use heroin and crack is generally to enter into a cycle that ends in poverty, depression, degradation, crime, violence, and ultimately death. Therefore, pragmatic arguments "we can't beat this, so we need to stop fighting it" don't really apply. If its wrong its wrong. We'll never stamp out murder or pedophilia either, but legalizing something immoral is never the right answer. Personally, I am committed by my confession of faith to oppose narcotics as something that inherently tends towards the unlawful destruction of the life of others, but then again I also don't believe that people have the right to kill their offspring or themselves.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
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Offline Silat

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2005, 06:37:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I can see drug abuse to be a factor in all of your scenarios. When a person doesn't understand what he's doing anything is possible. Most spousal abuse cases are directly related to either drug or alcohol usage. Same goes with murders at least in Finland. Rape and child abuse I don't know about, probably that has more to do with the persons mental health problems.

 

I support fully making even possession for personal use a crime. Same goes for buying. Hell if they outlawed buying sex how can it be legal to buy drugs? As what goes for the criminality of supply I think you're a bit off base there. The pushers are called pushers for a reason. Some of them hang next to schoolyards and offer 'free samples' to curious youngsters.

If that's not criminal I don't know what is.



Your are making statements as if they are fact.
Are you saying Rape Or any of the other crimes are with a high % caused by  drug use? Maybe you mean that some crimes are committed while drunk or on other drugs?Please site the info for me..

People will use drugs no matter the law. And that is a historical fact. The war and propoganda on drugs is not working and never will. Even with death as the punishment. Another historical fact is that the percentage of hardcore drugs users as a % of population doesnt change by much thru the years.
We have laws against all the crimes Ive mentioned. When a person commits a burglary due to drugs then they can be prosecuted for Burglary plus the drug offense. It shouldnt matter whether they were on drugs or not. Just prosecute the actual crime. If someone wants off drugs then treat it like the disease it is and offer help.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 06:41:29 PM by Silat »
+Silat
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Offline Vulcan

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2005, 06:52:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
People will use drugs no matter the law.


and people will drive drunk, and people will fiddle with kiddies, and people will rob, and people will steal... it doesn't mean we have to legalize those things. Drugs are bad. Nothing good comes of them. No excuses.

My only regret is Singapore does it executions behind closed doors, a good old public hanging would send a strong message out.

Offline Sandman

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2005, 07:01:19 PM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Drugs are bad. Nothing good comes of them. No excuses.


Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine... all drugs.
sand

Offline Seagoon

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2005, 09:23:00 PM »
Hi Sandy,

Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine... all drugs.


I know that that seems like a valid counterpoint, but I have serious doubts as to whether it really is. In reverse order, Caffeine is non-addictive and a useful mild stimulant. Its value in keeping people from dozing off on the road or on the job is unquestioned. Nicotine, on the other hand is addictive, and in high concentrations it is poisonous to humans. It is a mild stimulant, but the primary problem with it, is that it gets us hooked on its primary delivery device, tobacco. And as we realize, overusing tobacco causes health problems. Alcohol is a mild depressant when consumed in moderate quantities, overuse creates obvious impairment and eventually physical problems related to the damage done when the Liver is no longer able to detoxify it.

There is nothing "mild" about Heroin however. It is a potent and highly addictive Narcotic whose users consume it in order to become impaired. Not everyone who consumes alcohol necessarily does so in order to get blind drunk, and not all users of alcohol become alcoholics. The majority of people who have used Heroin on multiple occasions however, become addicts and usually require assistance to stop using it. Very few addicts are able to function at high levels, and most quickly descend to subsistence level or below it. Most of them are in fact slowly killing themselves. They are obviously dangerous to themselves, and frequently dangerous to others. Unlike alcohol there is no clear zone of successful moderation, unlike Caffeine there is no benign effect, and unlike nicotine they cannot remain productive while using it. All in all, Smack is a slow death sentence, to compare it to caffeine is roughly like saying we should legalize cocaine because some people use Ibuprofen.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
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Offline SOB

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2005, 09:27:10 PM »
I think Sandy was probably making the comparison to marijuana.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2005, 01:43:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Sandy,

I know that that seems like a valid counterpoint, but I have serious doubts as to whether it really is. In reverse order, Caffeine is non-addictive and a useful mild stimulant.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0119_050119_ngm_caffeine.html
sand

Offline Jackal1

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2005, 08:36:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Jackal,

Can you provide any hard information regarding the claim that the government of Singapore is systematically working with Burmese drug cartels to distribute Heroin world-wide? I mean aside from the oft-repeated claim that their banks are laundering money, because for that matter almost every financial center in the world is moving some dirty money around.

Please understand, I'm willing to believe your claim, but I'd like something more concrete than repeated assertions.
 


SG here is a link that pretty well explains the situation from a local standpoint. I have been doing some reading about this and it`s pretty clear. Will get you some more links when I have time.

http://omekanahuria.blogspot.com/2005/11/singapore-hypocritical-over-drugs.html  

Yea pretty much every financial institute is moving dirty money. The thing is...they know they are. When it comes to cash it makes no difference where it comes from, thus it`s a sham.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Jackal1

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2005, 08:47:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Yeah? What about it? So Burma is a leading trading partner with Singapore - how does that make Singapore in the business of distribution of drugs? Did you know that most of the heroin that comes into America originates in China which, in case you didn't know, is America's third largest trading partner. Does this mean that America is in the business of drugs distribution?

Hey, great logic! :aok:

Duh... :rolleyes:


Why thank you Oh Bruiser one. Logic seems to escape you. Sorry.
You best your sweet bippy America is in the drug distribution business. :) Haven`t checked lately , but at one time cocaine was the number two cash generating business in the U.S. I believe it was Gulf or one of the oil comapanies that was number one. The U.S. or no other country is going to make an honest effort to shut down that kind of cash flow. The war on drugs is a sham aimed at the naive. If you are willing to chew on it, they will gladly throw you a bone.
Not only did we encourage drug trade with places like Cambodia/Laos. We also sent personel to train in the agricultural aspect of growing the poppy. Go figure, huh? :)
Drugs are a virtual cash machine on a large scale.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline WhiteHawk

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2005, 09:29:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... I guess it could be said that if you are not a government sponsored a highly placed drug smuggler you will get the death penalty.

I sort of agree with the whiney liberal fartwinkle.... why not allow people to do as many drugs as they want?  if they die they die... It's a womans (or a mans) right to choose?  if they go to work on drugs the employer can fire em...or not.   drive on drugs?  lose your licence... what's the big deal?



lazs


Well, because street drugs are unfair and in some cases, the only choice made is the choice to try them.  after the chemicals burn out your circuits, you are  a hapless addict.   The choice then turns into a 'necessity' and finally a matter of survival.  This definatley poses a danger to innocent people and no longer becomes a personal choice but a choice to put otheres in danger.  I wouldnt mourn the passing of some crack dealer who tries pushing dope on kids.   But, your right.  It is kind of suspicious that drugs are are still so easily obtained.  Particularly the 100% imported ones.  (Cocaine, crack and heroine).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 09:31:43 AM by WhiteHawk »

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2005, 09:40:03 AM »
I get peeved off with people defending drug use. It serves no purpose and it causes huge problems in the society. The legislation will never stop the use but the very least we can push the users outside of the community.

The modern society tries to understand the addicts, it tries to tolerate their behaviour and honor their rights. An addict deserves only as much tolerance as he is ready to give others. None.
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Offline lazs2

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Australian Hanged for drug smuggling
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2005, 09:42:35 AM »
seagoon... this is one that I am torn on because I have so much experiance with it.  I realize that making abortion has caused more abortions... that is a given... I think people are using it as birth control and...  

women are being given abortion ability as a way for men to get in their pants... it takes away the last excuse.. that is why so many men support it... like the pill...  The pill started it and then the pill became dangerous but casual sex was instilled... abortion was the only fallback..

I believe that abortion will go back to being allmost nonexistent when a form of trouble free and safe and cheap birth control is invented.

It is nothing like drugs.  Drugs aren't want for some... they are need.   criminaliazation galmorizes them for the young... we old farts fear and loath em soooooo... they must be cool?   You got to see really cool people to get em... never mind that once addicted you see another kind of addict... by then it is too late.   No way out.   If you are busted your life choices are reduced by huge amounts...

I would rather it was all out in the open and the mystique was gone...  I can't imagine anyone romanticizing the heroin addict in the orange vest in the park picking up trash in order to get his food stamps and fix.

lazs