Author Topic: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)  (Read 5965 times)

Offline Hornet33

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2005, 05:18:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
This rights are a nice, but unnessesary addition to the rights to live, to feed, to have accomodation, education, job and rest. All this rights were 100% guaranteed in USSR, and it's a fact.


 Unnecessary rights???? Your joking right??? The right to free speech, freedom to worship how I want, freedom of the press, the right to keep and bare arms. Everything contained within the U.S. Bill of Rights is absolutly necessary for a free society. Your so called rights that were 100% garanteed to you in the USSR were only available as long as you toed the party line. Get out of line and get squashed. Some rights.

Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Any individual that opposes the society is in danger. You can't live outside of society..


Thats the nice thing about the U.S. As long as your not hurting anyone else you can pretty much do as you please. I don't belong to a political party. I'm what we call here in America, an Independent. I go my own way when it comes to politics. I have the ability to choose on my own if I want to follow a political leader or not. I also have the ablility to walk up to a politician in my country and tell him to his or her face if I think he or she is an idiot and NOTHING will happen to me. If I don't like what they are doing I can vote for someone else. If enough people vote like I do that idiot is out of a job.

Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
It was the most successfull social and economical project in human history. From illiterate agricultural country that starved every few years in 10 years it became an industrial and military power, with millions of educated people appearing out of nowhere, from the grey mass of peasants. After the most devastating war in human history it recovered in less then tree years, and twelve years later it reached into Space, beating Western powers technologically and socially. Yes, it didn't provide some of that imaginary "rights" you mentioned, but it wasn't an Orwellian dictatorship as it's portrayed by propaganda now. It was simply a different way of life, that's all.


And yet the U.S. is still here as a super power and the USSR is where??? For being so successfull you guys sure didn't last that long. For an economic power house you guys sure aren't doing to well now a days are you? As far as beating the U.S. into space, it wouldn't have happened without the German scientist and technical documents you captured at the end of the war. It was the same for us also, but how many of those Germans that you guys captured get full citizenship "rights" in the USSR? I know all the German scientist that came over to the states got full citizenship here. Also how many of your former states are trying to join NATO now?? I know the Ukraine is. I was there in Odesa in 2001 for a joint NATO exercise. I also know that the Republic of Gerogia is using old U.S. Coast Guard ships that we sold them because the stuff they had from the USSR was crap. I know because I helped train the crews on those 2 patrol boats we sold them. They are based in Poti. I spent a week there working on those boats and the crews told me all sorts of stuff about how "great" the USSR was. (Insert Sarcasm).

I'm a pretty opened minded person, but I have had the oppertunity to travel all over the world and see different countries and cultures first hand. For all the mistakes the United States makes, there is no way I would want to live anywhere else. The "imaginary" rights you say I have are VERY REAL and I don't take them for granted. As I said before I will fight anyone who would try to take them away, because they are so important. I only wish you could come here and see first hand what it is I'm talking about.
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Offline Masherbrum

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #76 on: December 13, 2005, 06:17:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
You are partially true. We could just stop at the Soviet border, only annexing East Prussia, and let poor Poland free from Soviet "occupation", they were so happy under Hitler! Seriously, instead of "occupation" we could save several million lives of Soviet soldiers.


Funny, you mock Poland, but they had balls you will never have.   Go hump a Yak Boroda (plane or animal).   You have nothing in common with sarcasm, nor are you funny.

Karaya

PS - Still wondering why for the 4th time, you've avoided the Katyn Massacre?  Afraid to back former COMMIE Gorbachev?
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Offline ATA

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2005, 06:48:59 PM »
Katyn Massacre then freed Poland from Germans,
Kind of cancel each other out.

Offline detch01

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2005, 01:00:28 AM »
Well, to answer the original question....

The USSR was a military empire that had been over-extended for decades. By the late 80's the Russian economy was collapsing in on itself under the strain of a failed war of conquest in Aphaganistan, a thiry-five year long arms and space race with the west, all of which had immediately followed a catastrophic war. And all this was preceded by two and a half decades of gross mismanagement of agriculture, the military and the economy, thanks to Stalin's paranoia.
In 1989, when it became evident to everyone that the threat of soviet military might was no longer real and the leaders of Russian client states could no longer be assured of soviet military power to back up their hold on their people, the soviet empire dissolved.
All military empires eventually dissolve is a truism. Military empires have to either turn into economic empires or they will die. That the Russian experiment with it can be measured in only decades just shows how flimsy the foundations of its empire really were. It wasn't capable of turning its military power into economic power. So no, it could not have been saved.

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Offline Thrawn

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2005, 01:29:54 AM »
The USSR was liberated from Russia.

Offline 1K3

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2005, 01:48:49 AM »
Ok Gorbachev introduced the reforms to save the USSR .  That was Gorbachev's real intention right?

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2005, 01:52:51 AM »
Boroda can you explain why each country your country 'liberated' had closed borders, KGB roaming about sending people to gulags, communism, large Russian immigration, russian school system and Russian as the second language?

Aside from sticking 'Soviet Union' label on the top of the box, you can't get much more annexed than that.
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Offline Estel

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Re: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2005, 03:17:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
Could USSR have been saved or was it beyond repair or just too late?


Yes. It could be saved.

Quote

Could USSR have been like the current Peoples Republic of China if USSR survived?


No.

I will not give you detailed answers. Mostly because you will not understand them. To understand all politicial machinery of the USSR you should live here not just for a lot of years, but for all of your life.

Offline Wolfala

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Re: Re: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2005, 04:03:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Estel
Yes. It could be saved.

 

No.

I will not give you detailed answers. Mostly because you will not understand them. To understand all politicial machinery of the USSR you should live here not just for a lot of years, but for all of your life.


Most appropiate answer i've seen in 2 pages.


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Offline Angus

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2005, 04:59:46 AM »
Boroda, you took that bait about Katyn, and call it faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
"I don't "believe" in anything. As for Katyn' - I have pure facts that proves Soviet side not guilty, but I still admit that it could happen. Faith is for people like Toad. I always doubt."

Is thousands of corpses just faith???????? Yer NUTS!
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Offline lazs2

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2005, 08:36:18 AM »
well... we may have all been fed a lot of propoganda.... I tend to think that soviet stuff was particulary strange tho but...

The only real way to look at it is... anyplace that has to build walls to keep it's citizens in is doomed....

I think the soviet union was doomed as soon as it was easy to see how the rest of the world lived.

lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Re: Re: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2005, 08:40:57 AM »
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Most appropiate answer i've seen in 2 pages.

What I find ironic about his NO answer is...I've seen the same argument used here on this board when someone defends American politics or culture, then that person is labled a bigot, or racist...

Offline Skilless

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #87 on: December 14, 2005, 08:49:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... we may have all been fed a lot of propoganda.... I tend to think that soviet stuff was particulary strange tho but...

The only real way to look at it is... anyplace that has to build walls to keep it's citizens in is doomed....

I think the soviet union was doomed as soon as it was easy to see how the rest of the world lived.

lazs


What I find fascinating is their staunch defense of a ideology that was so deeply flawed that it failed in a matter of decades.  The way they keep talking about the USSR in the present tense (like a loved one they refuse to believe is dead) speaks volumes...

Offline Angus

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could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #88 on: December 14, 2005, 09:19:21 AM »
Yet, the USSR was not completely without merit.
They also had their moments.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Re: Re: Re: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only)
« Reply #89 on: December 14, 2005, 09:28:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
What I find ironic about his NO answer is...I've seen the same argument used here on this board when someone defends American politics or culture, then that person is labled a bigot, or racist...


Wolfala is a friend of Boroda, remember his trip to Russia a year or two back Rip?  Of course, he'll type something like that Rip.   You are also correct on bigot, racist thing.  

Karaya
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 09:32:36 AM by Masherbrum »
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