Author Topic: The Holocaust never happened..  (Read 1859 times)

Offline fartwinkle

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The Holocaust never happened..
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2005, 04:39:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Psst... SIX days... "Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.  And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done." (Gen. 1:31-2:2)

Personally, I'm a big fan of the middle east itself, certain occupants and worldviews however... :cry

- SEAGOON



OOOPS thats right on the seventh day he kicked back and had a bud.

Offline Hangtime

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The Holocaust never happened..
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2005, 04:46:17 PM »
you'd think that if the big guy could get the ball rolling in just six days he coulda a put in another day or two workin the bugs out.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Pei

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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2005, 05:16:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
you'd think that if the big guy could get the ball rolling in just six days he coulda a put in another day or two workin the bugs out.


I think he left it as an exercise for the reader.

Offline LePaul

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The Holocaust never happened..
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2005, 05:17:51 PM »

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 06:35:54 PM »
Perhaps the UN will issue a resolution strongly advising other countries to get involved in a resolution to form a committe to decide on what kind if any strongly worded warning to give the country of Iran and that if they persist more debate will then be needed to come up with the correct wording of a resolution that says there needs to be a resolution on how to start to think about admonishing Iran.


Or we can all wait for Lada to come here and tell us how this is just western propaganda and lies and how Iran is a peacfull country with good intentions that loves Isreal and would never do anything like that.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2005, 08:15:07 AM »
i wish we'd stop dicking around and just get it over with. the middle east is like watching a bad porn flick. we all know who's gonna get screwed. lets just cut to the chase and commence with the screwing already.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2005, 08:19:11 AM »
You'd be surprised at how strong the democratic movement in Iran is.

So what I said still holds true.

Drop a JDAM on the royal palace and the **** will sort itself out.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2005, 08:25:22 AM »
pretty sure that he knows who his audience is and that there is no muslim that would dissagree with the thinkgs he is saying.. they might be pissed that he is putting it all out in the open tho.

lazs

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2005, 09:45:01 AM »
Howdy Laz,

Ahmadinejad is accomplishing a number of things with his pronouncements. First, he is simply saying openly that which is preached from countless Masjids in the Middle-East, Europe, Asia, and even here in the USA every Friday. He is also exposing the West for what it has become, a paper tiger. "Stop, or we'll say stop again" we retort. He is also doing an admirable job of trying to successfully accomplish what Saddam failed to do in the first gulf war - namely provoke Israel into a pre-emptive attack that would allow Iran to respond directly, and which would serve as a rallying cry for the middle-eastern nations to become more overt in their support for Jihad. We view an Israeli attack on Iran's nukes as something that the Iranians would like to avoid, au contraire - their attitude like Iraqs at that time is "bring it on!"

You see, we are making a fundamental error in our approach to dealing with Iran. As secular Westerners we assume that the institutional desires of Iran are fundamentally similar to our own. So we take it for granted that Iran wishes to prosper as a member of the community of nations. However, Khomeni and his successors saw establishing the Islamic republic of Iran as merely the first part in the larger dream of a reestablished caliphate, with the historic animosities between Shia and Sunni largely put aside because of the need to confront the common enemy. As such, for Ahmadinejad and his colleagues, the nation of Iran is more of a vehicle for promoting a wider ideaology. Nations are useful only for what they can accomplish in promoting the wider goals of the Jihad. Ultimately nations are themselves things that must wither and die when the Pan-Islamic vision is realized. In the same way diplomacy, politics, and so on are only useful as far as they may be employed to bring about the overall higher vision. So when we deal with Iran we need to be dealing with a state we fully expect to be absolutely disingenuous and which will stop at nothing to achieve the greater vision. Put simply, they aren't going to play by the same rules we do, and they never will unless secular Iranians can once again successfully take over the government.

To quote Ahmadinejad directly: "The people, in the last elections, proved their faith in the Revolution, and wish to see a revival of the Islamic Revolution's ideals... This revolution was in fact a continuation of the Prophets' movement and, therefore, all political, economic, and cultural goals of the country need to be directed at materializing the Islamic ideals." He added, "Followers of this divine school of Islamic thought are doing their best to pave the way for the urgent reappearance [of the Hidden Imam]."

Put simply, Ahminedjad and co. see it as their duty to finally rally and wake up the faithful and get them moving. At present a pitifully small percentage of the umma the body of the Muslim faithful, are directly involved in Jihad (10%? 30%?) They are looking to awaken them so they might once again become the unstoppable force they were in 700s.

"We must see what the real story of Palestine is... The establishment of the regime that is occupying Jerusalem was a very grave move by the hegemonic and arrogant system [i.e. the West] against the Islamic world. We are in the process of an historical war between the World of Arrogance [i.e. the West] and the Islamic world, and this war has been going on for hundreds of years.

In this historical war, the situation at the fronts has changed many times. During some periods, the Muslims were the victors and were very active, and looked forward, and the World of Arrogance was in retreat.

Unfortunately, in the past 300 years, the Islamic world has been in retreat vis-à-vis the World of Arrogance… During the period of the last 100 years, the [walls of the] world of Islam were destroyed and the World of Arrogance turned the regime occupying Jerusalem into a bridge for its dominance over the Islamic world... 'Oh dear people, look at this global arena. By whom are we confronted? We have to understand the depth of the disgrace of the enemy, until our holy hatred expands continuously and strikes like a wave."
- Ahmadinejad, October 26, 2005 as reported by the Iranian Students News Agency

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2005, 02:20:22 PM »
Quote
"Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets"


In Russian it is translated as "åâðîïåéöû ñîçäàëè ìèô î ìàññîâûõ óáèéñòâàõ åâðååâ è ïîñòàâèëè ýòîò ìèô âûøå áîãà".

Twisted translation, at least one of two.

Russian translation is that holocaust is mythologised and put above god etc. But you can read it in another way.

Nothing about denying the very fact of holocaust. It doesn't stop our "liberal" press from screaming in fury.

Can anyone tell me why Jews are better then 20 million Soviet civilians slaughtered by nazis? I am against making any nation "more equal".

Moderators, please delete this post without doubt if you find it inappropriate.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2005, 02:44:31 PM »
Can you tell me why the 20 million soviet deaths at the hands of the nazis are more important than the many more deaths at the hands of your own leaders?
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2005, 02:54:05 PM »
Hi Boroda,

Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Can anyone tell me why Jews are better then 20 million Soviet civilians slaughtered by nazis? I am against making any nation "more equal".
 


I'll take a stab at it, you'll have to forgive me if I don't quite answer completely.

I think it may have something to do with the following:

On September 17, 1939 even as the Germans were rampaging through Western Poland, the Russians, in accordance with their previous agreement with Hitler, invaded from the East. During their occupation of Poland they were responsible for the deaths of perhaps 250,000 Poles, including the infamous Katyn massacre.



Had Herr Hitler not broken his non-agression treaty with Stalin in June of 1941, Russia would have been quite content to sit back and allow Germany to have a free hand in the conquered territories.

Then there is also the fact that the Jews did not have the opportunity to march 3.5 million of their former tormentors off to Gulags in Siberia where the majority of them perished in appalling conditions. The Jews also did not systematically massacre between 15 and 20 million of their own people, as the Russian government did during the Stalin years.

Finally as horrific as the German attrocities against the Russian people were, the Russians as a people had an opportunity to defend themselves against the Nazis while the Jews (with a few exceptions such as the Warsaw uprising) never did.

So while we sympathize with the longsuffering Russian people it is difficult to compare them in a one to one fashion with say the Jews or the Gypsys because of the immense suffering caused by the Soviet Government.

Generally, people tend to find sympathizing with the Jewish plight during the Second World War easier for many of the same reasons that people in the USA tend to sympathize more with the plight of the slaves than the countless southerners who lost everything or starved during the American Civil War.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline lada

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Re: The Holocaust never happened..
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2005, 05:41:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
according to Ahmadinejad.

 

I have to wonder what he means by "suffocating the voices of justice." My best guess: killing Iranian nationals in Iraq modeling the latest in Simtex chic before they can make a down payment on their 72 virgins.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_holocaust



since you do not oppress people nor make them homeless and you are not aggressive, you dont care, because you didnt miss IF, did you ?  


But you seems to feel offended... ohhh.. may be you comply with his "if clause" in your mind. :rolleyes:


anyway one of us dont know english.. ( because i trough its me, i didnt comment, but you convinced me to use holy weapon  )

Since Myth stand for "stories that a particular culture believes to be true and that use the supernatural to interpret natural events and to explain the nature of the universe and humanity." , I dont undetand in whitch part of  his speech is he denying holocaust. Just to save you some time, most accurate quotation in english that i manage to find is *** "Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets "****

Would somebody give me a lesson of proper english language please..  ?




heya saw.. dude stop bugging here and fix hangar or i put ji........ you know what  :D

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2005, 06:01:07 PM »
Lada, honest question.  What do YOU think he's saying when he says "Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets"

to me it's like this:[bold being my words/interprataion]

Today, they have created a myth

A myth being a made up cultural story.

in the name of Holocaust

calling it a holocaust or referencing a great injustice apon a specific people.  Holocaust being specific to the jewish plight during WWII

and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets

and think it's done not as an act of god


at least that's my interpretation but then again I don't speak his language and can only equate it to english so all together I have this:

A myth being a a made up cultural story calling it a holocaust or referencing a great injustice apon a specific people.  Holocaust being of the jewish plight during WWII and think it's done not as an act of god.

again this is my opinion and I'm wondering yours since you can relate and havn't stated as such.

Offline lada

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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 06:26:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Lada, honest question.  What do YOU think he's saying when he says "Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets"

to me it's like this:[bold being my words/interprataion]

Today, they have created a myth

A myth being a made up cultural story.

in the name of Holocaust

calling it a holocaust or referencing a great injustice apon a specific people.  Holocaust being specific to the jewish plight during WWII

and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets

and think it's done not as an act of god


at least that's my interpretation but then again I don't speak his language and can only equate it to english so all together I have this:

A myth being a a made up cultural story calling it a holocaust or referencing a great injustice apon a specific people.  Holocaust being of the jewish plight during WWII and think it's done not as an act of god.

again this is my opinion and I'm wondering yours since you can relate and havn't stated as such.


well i agree, but dont "extract" fact, whitch is quite common even in our language... that myth is based uppon true story

I will show you quite diferent point of view(local).
Iran has been a little bit critic to EU's secularity. But we take it as our best advantige, so we dont care what other think. Specialy when they are theocrats. In past 6 months several people has been put on trail for some "comments" about holocaust. This matter got quite a huge attention overhere and one of EU's ministers has been striped off his immuniti. Lets say that at least 3 "high profile" people went for trail because of they comments about holocaust in past 6 months. Since its quite ok to walk with transparent saying "God is impotent half-lesbian half-hermafrodit" and nobody give a chit, you can not basicaly say a word whitch could strugle with theme "holocaust".
It doesnt matter if his comments were for Europian or whoever,
but im quite sure, that he is right regarding EU current situation.  Thus his comment is attack on EU's freedom of speech IMO.
[did you get my answer on your question?]

thx for staying on theme