It's official...

[DoKGonZo]

Setting perk based on k/d is the opposite of what's needed.

Your stats about more deaths highlights what I was getting at. The more uber planes are not only getting used by the newer players, they're also being used in way which exploit their uberness. That is - half the La7's I see decline combat so they can make vultch passes on the nearest field - 3/4 of the Tiffy's I see decline combat so they can blow up field assets - 3/4 of the Spit16's I see clearly have no intention of getting home and just want to get to the nearest furball as fast as possible since now they can chase down almost anything which gets slow around them.

The angle I'm taking on this is that if you want to take a 10 or less ENY plane and die in it time after time after time (for whatever reason) it should cost you something. What it costs you is the ability to keep doing this for "free." The people who love the P51, Spit, etc - who respect the planes - aren't the ones racking up them 29,000 extra deaths.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Spit16 ain't the problem (because up to a month ago, the La-7 was "the problem"). There's enough stats collected I'm sure to be able to determine when a plane's usage or usage profile hits some level which fires the provisional perking. Same for players - and it can't be on k/d ratio - it'd need to be based on landed kills to missions flown or something. Some way to indicate a level of play which deserves to take uberrides for free.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Crumpp
I am not asking for the Spitfire to be perked.

Don't take it personally , my comment was a general comment , not directed to you.

(general comment again)

Whatever is your personnal favorite plane it's your responsability as a pilot to use her efficiently.
I agree the Spit I ,109E4 are difficult to use in the MA but well if you up one of this planes it's your job to make it shine.

[Kurfürst]

Originally posted by Kev367th
45

LW - Has more than a few at their MAX performance boost levels
USAF and RAF - Not ONE plane uses 150 grade fuel.
 

Sorry but don't think it's the case. I don't know the 190 line as much as Crumpp does, but I can assure you the grass isn't 'greener' on the LW/109 side.

We don't have any of the DB 601N powered Emils, 1.42ata 109 F-4 from 1942, G-2. Probably we have the 1.42ata G-6, cool, that's actually worser than the G-2 at 1.3. We don't have the 1.98ata 109K either.

The RAF has the +12 lbs Spits I and V though, and now has the +18 lbs IXLF/XVI, sure it doesn't have the +25 lbs Spit yet. But you can't say you are worser off.

[storch]

Originally posted by Kev367th

Conclusion - Looks like the new Spits are probably the newbies choice of plane, in fact it may be what is drawing them, and perhaps keeps them in AH2.

And people want it perked?
Nothing quite like biting off the the hand that feeds you.

[edit] XVI is the highest scoring La7 killer, and that can't be a bad thing [/B]

 just out of curiosity how does the spitXVI stack up against the 110G2?

[Kev367th]

Dok, I see what your getting at but it will never happen, for the following reasons-

i) I would imagine that HT main player base is from the U.S.
ii) Newbs coming to the game usually look for one of the big 4 (Spit/Pony/109/190)
iii) Apart from the early models most of those are lower than ENY 10.
iv) A system that perks the Pony D at any level woud probably hurt HTC see (i) and (ii).

As for people charging into furballs, whats wrong with that?
I haven't been on recently (waiting for fix for the warpy/slidy/vanishing planes), but when the XVI was introduced there were a great many more furballs.

The reason the La7 wasn't perked was that although there certainly was a lot of them it never really managed a K/D much higher the 1.1 to 1.2, i.e. it didn't dominate the MA.
At the moment the XVI is in the same category, yup theres a lot of them, but it hasn't managed a K/D much over 1.1 . Now if it suddenly starts hitting 1.5+, then I think it may happen to get perked.

Still say the answer is to have more choices, not restrict the choices available.
Perk the XVI you'll suddenly have the combined XVI and VIII (over 40k) deaths all on the VIII, then it would end up perked also.
Result - RAF Spits back to a worse position before the new models (lost the uber Mk V), and two more hanger queens in the planeset.

Maybe try unperking the XIV for a tour, see what happens.
Spits own worst enemy is its reputation -
a) It famous
b) It is easy to fly in AH2, just as it was in 'real life', was only the later Griffon spits that became 'handfuls'.

Storch - Couldn't tell you, taken a short break, all the warps/sliding/subterranean and vanishing planes was driving me nuts.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Crumpp
That is a good point.  They were certainly better than not clipping the wings to combat the FW-190.

However it is also a fact that Spitifire pilots using clipped wing aircraft did not feel they it made much of a difference when fighting FW-190's.   It was certainly improvement over a non-clipped wing but still unable to match the Focke Wulf.

It is also a fact that clipping the wings reduced the turn ability, raised the stall speed, lowered high altitude performance, degraded the handling characteristics, and detracted considerably from the fighting characteristics of the aircraft as this report concluded.
 

 

Clipping the wings was not a magical solution during the war nor should it be a magical solution in AH.

All the best,

Crumpp

The spit16 we have seems to preform extremely well above 20k.  It seems it doesn't suffer at altitude at all.  It seems to out turn some of our other spits.

Thinkin maybe the flight model for the spit16 needs revisiting????

[Kev367th]

Wrag I think the problem is with the VIII FM not the XVI. VIII FM seems to be based on the VIII with extended tips, not std ones.

BTW that report - A close look shows although it claims to have flown the V, IX and XII with and without clipped wings, the comments from the pilots are ALL flying the F V  only.

All the pilots say it was definately better in roll than a standard wing, yet the guy summarising recommends not doing it.

Most of his problems wouldn't even be a problem with LF series Merlin 66 Spits
i.e. Reduced alt - No prob, LF were designed lower alts anyway
Reduced climb - No prob, Merlin 66 had much better ROC than a 45/46
Carrier - Seafires did in fact fly off CV's fully loaded with clipped wings WITHOUT a problem.
Deacrease in speed over 20k - No prob, led to increase at low alts, were the LF's were desinged for.
Inability to turn as fast - No prob, still outturned LW opponents.

Some of his conscerns are valid for F V Merlin 45/46 Spits, but cannot be applied to Merlin 66 spits.
Seems strange they never used a LF V in the 'tests'.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Wrag I think the problem is with the VIII FM not the XVI. VIII FM seems to be based on the VIII with extended tips, not std ones.

BTW that report - A close look shows although it claims to have flown the V, IX and XII with and without clipped wings, the comments from the pilots are ALL flying the F V  only.

All the pilots say it was definately better in roll than a standard wing, yet the guy summarising recommends not doing it.

Most of his problems wouldn't even be a problem with LF series Merlin 66 Spits
i.e. Reduced alt - No prob, LF were designed lower alts anyway
Reduced climb - No prob, Merlin 66 had much better ROC than a 45/46
Carrier - Seafires did in fact fly off CV's fully loaded with clipped wings WITHOUT a problem.
Deacrease in speed over 20k - No prob, led to increase at low alts, were the LF's were desinged for.
Inability to turn as fast - No prob, still outturned LW opponents.

Some of his conscerns are valid for F V Merlin 45/46 Spits, but cannot be applied to Merlin 66 spits.
Seems strange they never used a LF V in the 'tests'.

I was in a spitix flying at about 20k against a spit16.  The 16 seemed to fly as well, possibly even better then the 9.  The spit16 did not SEEM to suffer any lose of abilities at alt.

[Kev367th]

XVI should be good up to around 22k or so, not much more.
Above 25k it really suffers.

[Crumpp]

The gauges on the FW-190A's cannot be simulated under Aces High so no one can really say if they are at the correct boost.

Nor can the Kommandogerät's operation be simulated either.

Kev, we are not talking about what the gauge says in the graphic's showtime of the cockpit anyway.

I am refering to performance in the air.

For example, it appears the AH FW-190A8 is based off of these charts:

 

 

As the chart says this if for a NORMAL finish FW-190A8 and represents a chart of uncorrected speeds.

When you run this data through Focke Wulfs position error corrections, you get the published data Focke Wulf guarenteed the FW-190A8 could achieve [/b] on average[/b] in True Air Speed, not the Calibrated Air Speed of the chart.

The on average part is why you can find FW-190A8's doing 585kph TAS on the deck.  It is almost exactly 1.5 % above the published figures.

Now how come there is no outrage from Spitfire fans who want to see a correctly modeled Spitfire when the data exceeds Supermarines guarenteed percetages?

Personally I don't think it is far enough outside the swath of achievable performance of the Spitfire Mk XVI to warrent correction in and of itself.  However if the Spitfire Mk XVI is not representative of the type's historical abilities and unbalances gameplay, then by all means it needs to be corrected.  

It certainly might warrent attention if it's high altitude performance is out of the realm of possibility.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Kev367th]

When you've put up with the Spit lineup as it was for so many years anything tends to an improvement.
The only thing we tend to complain about is that none of the later war ones have ever been at their max boost.
Mostly it's cosmetic stuff, i.e. I would have liked a bubbletop XVI.

I think we tend to have more confidence in HT getting it right, or as close to right as you can get to run on a home PC, without having to spend half the national budget for a 'real' simulator.

LF XVI should be good up to around 22k as I said, as you get higher you start getting into the area the F IX excels, but there is an overlap.

[Crumpp]

All the pilots say it was definately better in roll than a standard wing, yet the guy summarising recommends not doing it.

I think you keep missing the portion about the normal wing aileron variation.  As you well know roll rate is not only extremely difficult to measure or compare, it also has a natural variation among aircraft of the same type.

In general the report says it is a large improvement over a normal wing with low end ailerions.  It is not much of an improvement over a normal wing with good ailerions.

It is an engineer method to ensure all Spitfires perform at least as well as a normal wing with good ailerions.

A close look shows although it claims to have flown the V, IX and XII with and without clipped wings, the comments from the pilots are ALL flying the F V only.

Is there any engineering basis to suggest a large roll rate variation among Spitfire variants?  AFAIK, the wing design remains unchanged although both metal and fabric ailerons were used.

Other natural frise type aileron variation, having three different types of ailerons with different hinging axis and extremely sensative adjustment characteristics there is no difference in rolling ability amoung the FW-190's with the Grosse Flugel.  In otherwords, with the same set up and properly adjusted, the variation is just natural frise ailerion variation acounted for in the adjustment regulations.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Kev367th]

Wasn't so much that Crumpp -

All the conscerns or disadvantages he lists are not a problem for LF series Spits, especially the Merlin 66 series Spits.
He's using F series 45/46 Spit V's, it's like using them with extended tips to show they shouldn't be used on the HF Spits.

In fact the one about CV ops is patently wrong considering Seafires flew off CV fully laden with clipped wings, WITHOUT a problem.

What is troubling is the doc appears to be dated 1943, yet not aircraft tested was an LF V.

[Angus]

Well, Imagine the whines there would be if there was the mere finest 1943 Spitty, - IX LF with 25 boost,,,,,,,,,

[Kev367th]

Ah but an LF IX with 25 boost would in reality be at earliest a May 44 one.

Still like to see whine-o-meter if we had got a XII and F.21 .