Election in Iraq

[Yeager]

If you thought having elections in iraq was a good thing, read this:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article334476.ece

The article starts with this:

 "Iraq is disintegrating"

Let us all hope for the best

[1K3]

Religious fundamentalists now have the upper hand. The secular and nationalist candidate backed by the US and Britain was humiliatingly defeated.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Yeager
If you thought having elections in iraq was a good thing, read this:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article334476.ece

The article starts with this:

 "Iraq is disintegrating"

Let us all hope for the best

$300+ Billion and 2000+ American lives. Hope is pretty ****ing expensive.

[deSelys]

It may look petty, but you supporters of the war in Iraq (a 'war for freedom') need to hear 'we told you so' again and again.
No WMDs found. Lots of US and Iraqi lives wasted to get rid of a tyrant, but the freedom gained  looks like it will go down the drain as soon as the country is left to itself. Probably to be replaced by an even greater tyranny.
The self proclaimed 'world police' need to realize that some cultures AREN'T READY for democracy.
You don't give a Xbox 360 to a 2 yrs old toddler as a present. At best, he won't use it but most probably he will wreck it in no time, and chances are that he will hurt himself in the process.
Lesson to be learned: don't offer democracy to religious nuts (or other fanatical cultures).


After causing this mess, I hope that the US forces won't pull back now and leave the country open to the fundamentalists.

[VOR]

I think Western arrogance and superiority is one of the reasons the Middle Eastern zealots are all twisted up in the first place, but I could be wrong.

[eagl]

VOR

You may be right.  Maybe we should start beating our women and toss out the last 200 years of cultural and industrial progress, just so people don't become enraged with envy at western superiority.

I heard that's Canada's plan anyhow

[Dago]

Amazing, one reporter serves his own personal agenda with a huge load of bias, and people gather around to say "oh gee".

If you fail to look at that and fail to have the obvious bias and slant slap you in the face, then you are dense.

We may not love the result, but it is there future to decide, and how nice they get to decide, to vote.

dago

[Jackal1]

So....which book is Mr Cockburn trying to sell now?
Probably some old time hardliner reporters in Russia who could put a pretty good spin on the Russian missiles dug up yesterday also.

[WMLute]

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by deSelys
It may look petty, but you supporters of the war in Iraq (a 'war for freedom') need to hear 'we told you so' again and again.
No WMDs found. Lots of US and Iraqi lives wasted to get rid of a tyrant, but the freedom gained  looks like it will go down the drain as soon as the country is left to itself. Probably to be replaced by an even greater tyranny.
The self proclaimed 'world police' need to realize that some cultures AREN'T READY for democracy.
You don't give a Xbox 360 to a 2 yrs old toddler as a present. At best, he won't use it but most probably he will wreck it in no time, and chances are that he will hurt himself in the process.
Lesson to be learned: don't offer democracy to religious nuts (or other fanatical cultures).


After causing this mess, I hope that the US forces won't pull back now and leave the country open to the fundamentalists.

It doesn't just LOOK petty, it is petty, but it is to be expected coming from the likes of YOU.

Don't worry, we don't often cut and run like the UN, although we have at times lately. We aren't as gutless and useless as the UN either, at least when we have something besides a skirt chasing candyass in the main office. Despite all the support we get from a certain group of total gutless idiots as it stands currently the U.S. and at least Britain will stay the course and finish the job.

Of course those who intend to stay the course and finish the job are those you don't like. You know, Bush, Cheney, Blair, Rumsfeld. It's your beloved buddies who want to cut and run. You know, Gore, Kerry, Reid, Pelosi, your kind of people. Funny what that says about you, ain't it. Oh, and the vast majority of those in the military,and those citizens of Iraq, don't seem to count their new found ability to VOTE and have some SELF DETERMINATION as a total waste.

Awfully generous of YOU to determine who is WORTHY of freedom and democracy, and who should suffer under a murderous tyrant. Why you pompous, self important, worthless, snivelling craven coward. What makes you qualified to say that the Iraqis or anyone else isn't worthy and deserving of anything other than decades of brutal treatment by a murderous tyrant? So YOU DESERVE freedom and democracy, and those who are being crushed under tyranny do not? I call BULL****! YOU won't fight to help them, but someone else will fight to help them, and they line up to fight to help themselves, but YOU feel you should be able to determine they aren't WORTHY of democracy and freedom. Anyone who will not fight for his freedom and the freedom of others deserves no freedom of his own.

[Saintaw]

You are the only one here using the word "deserve", that is no what Deselys said. Step of that high horse... clean your nose, it's full of **** after he rubbed it in.

[DREDIOCK]

WOW!
Holy Moley!
Holy Moses
Holy Cow!

Shia won in Shia areas!
Sunni Won in Sunni areas!
And Kuds won in Kurdish areas!

Thats almost as utterly shocking as the Democrats winning in California
And the Republicans winning in Texas

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Dago

We may not love the result, but it is there future to decide, and how nice they get to decide, to vote.

dago

Exactly. The main point is missed entirely
Which is
"THEY get to decide and VOTE"

The outcome is about as surprising to me as a catholic being voted pope

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Saintaw
You are the only one here using the word "deserve", that is no what Deselys said. Step of that high horse... clean your nose, it's full of **** after he rubbed it in.

"Deserve" and "ready for" amount to the same thing in this case. His position is that the Iraqis should have remained under Saddam Hussien's tyranny. Justify THAT position and lower yourself to his level.

Get off YOUR high horse hot dog, he didn't rub my nose in anything. A number of Iraqis have tried on several occasions to free themselves of Saddam's tyranny. THIS time someone stepped in and helped. THEY were ready, and THEY deserved the help. ANYTIME a man is willing to risk EVERYTHING to remain free or gain his freedom, he is READY to be free and deserves freedom. The fact that there are those in the same country who oppose that freedom makes Iraq no different than any other country. There are those in ANY country who would attempt to establish the sort of government that those fundamentalist psychopaths in Iraq, or anywhere else in the Middle East, are attempting to establish. I suppose that means none of those people in those countries are "ready" for democracy. BULL****!

VERY rarely in the history of mankind has any group of people under tyranny thrown off the shackles of that tyranny and oppression without at least SOME measure of outside assistance. To say that those in Iraq who crave freedom and are willing to fight for it are any less ready or worthy than any other race, creed, religion, or color, is pure garbage and elitism.

Now, you and your buddy go ahead and tell us all again how those hundreds of thousands, or more accurately MILLIONS of Iraqis who are and have been willing to fight and die for their freedom and for democracy aren't "ready" for democracy and freedom, and are not worthy of every bit of help ANYONE who enjoys freedom can offer them. Go ahead and tell us all how they are some how lesser men than you.

I say ANY man who is willing to fight, struggle, and die for his own freedom and chance at democracy is ready for it and worthy of help. What say you?

[deSelys]

Thanks for your answer, Capt VH. I hope that no MP will erase it due to the personal attacks because your reaction is very interesting.

I'll keep my answer simple: get out of Disneyland and step in the real world. Yes, I'm cynical and yes, I don't have much faith in the human being. It's ugly, but as 2000 years of history are proving me right, it's probably the sanest way of thinking.

I'll add a last comment: I believe that the persons who you're holding in so high regards will precisely be willing to cut and run as soon as the losses will exceed the (material) gains. Because I'm far from being convinced that they did that for some kind of 'iraqi ideal'. After all, it wouldn't be a very republican way of thinking, would it?