Author Topic: and the war on the poor is stepped up a notch (Read 1426 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #45 on:** December 23, 2005, 06:43:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
Hospitals are going under in a lot of cities due to the free medical care they are forced to give to those who have no insurance---in border towns like in south Texas, Mexicans come across the border JUST to have their babies (at our expense) then go back home, leaving an already-strained hospital with yet anouth $20-30k bill that wont get paid--NOONE is turned away from a public hostpital in this country, which isn't to say that old folks dont have to often pay a lot for their meds--the prescription drug benefit program Bush pushed through a few years ago is starting about now (to a collective YAWN from the media), which is suppose to help address that. That being said, I don't think Jefferson put anything in the constitution about free medical care.

I dont know that i'm lucky, but I DO deserve the stuff I have--I'm a blue collar puke (electronic techie) I work 2 jobs--have had 1 day off this month. watermelon happens...wife got cancer this year, got tons of bills..lost income...the worst thing ya can do is look at what others have and feel jealousy or envy--utterly UNproductive emotion

Yep. Good Samaritan law. Harborview in Seattle had one drug addict that OD'd 4 times in one year, costing the good o;' taxpayers of this state $1,000,000 ...all free because this person was homeless and a druggy (THanks again for the 1960's culture!) WHo says we don't have free medical in this country?

LePaul · « **Reply #46 on:** December 23, 2005, 06:47:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lye-El
Isn't a local mall anywhere around here. And your probably right. They pay everybody too much in the city. And nobody is screaming for employees around here. Not everybody is in a rosy urban enviroment with malls that can't hire people at 8$ an hour. But don't let that fact enter your urban focused mind.

Urban mind?

Dear God that's funny

Do a Mapquest of Bangor Maine and tell me how metropolitan my area is LOL

capt. apathy · « **Reply #47 on:** December 23, 2005, 07:11:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
Hospitals are going under in a lot of cities due to the free medical care they are forced to give to those who have no insurance---in border towns like in south Texas, Mexicans come across the border JUST to have their babies (at our expense) then go back home, leaving an already-strained hospital with yet anouth $20-30k bill that wont get paid--NOONE is turned away from a public hostpital in this country,

another problem caused by the lack of a health plan.

yes a hospital emergency room is required to treat you (stabilize your condition). that means that if someone is sick (say strep, and ear infection, respiratory infection or the like) and can't afford the $100 it costs to see a doctor, they'll use the emergency room for the services that should be handled by a clinic. (and keep you waiting forever when you need the ER for an actual emergency, by flooding it with cases it shouldn't even be handling)

the emergency room will keep them sitting in the waiting room for 6-10 hours, run labs on a condition thats now gone too long without treatment, give them initial treatment, a prescription for 3-5 days worth of meds (that they won't be able to afford to fill), and instructions to follow up with their family physician, who doesn't exist.

then they are sent on their way, little if nothing is accomplished as far as curing them (since they'll be back when it gets worse again) and they drag their sick bellybutton to work to pass whatever they have around to the rest of us.

then when they run out on the bill the rest of us pick up the tab (in higher med costs) for an ER visit($300-500 + labs, treatment and meds) that didn't solve the problem so will likely come up again.

with a national health plan the guy could have made an appointment with the doctor early on, missed a half of a day of work to make the appointment, picked up his meds, cured his problem and been on his way.

$100 for a office visit + $20-50 for meds and the problem is over. seems a more efficient use of my dollar to me. plus I can get in and out of the ER much faster when I or someone I care about needs it.

vorticon · « **Reply #48 on:** December 23, 2005, 07:58:41 PM »

"Do a Mapquest of Bangor Maine and tell me how metropolitan my area is LOL"

i did a quick search and within seconds found job postings for more than you could make in any mall, anywhere...any male over 18 who willingly works in a mall (as anything other than security or facility) is a fool...

lazs2 · « **Reply #49 on:** December 24, 2005, 10:42:34 AM »

apathy... I agree that drug laws should be streamlined to get drugs on the market cheaper but... you do realize that some will get sick or die that wouldn't have otherwise right? No president want's say..... a couple of hundred thalidimide babies as a legacy... that is really all there is to it.

As for the war.... you could take all we spend on the war and put it toward free health care and it would run the program for a year or so... think of paying for a war every year for eternity... wars get paid off.... socialism never does...

but... you never answered my question.... do you really think the government could effectively run a health care program with the same doctors and level of expertise and the same freedom of the people to go where they want and sue for millions for malpractice? How thick would the "attorney" section of the phone book be without malpractice or medical suits? Blame the lawyers if you want someone to blame..

and.... as for taxes... let me tell you a sad story...equal to your own I reckon only not about health care but about the taxes and tax men you seem to think will solve everything..

my girlfriend got layed off from a middle management job... she had to cash out the retirement program to live off of... she thought she payed the taxes on it but seems.... she was about a grand short on the federal and state taxes...

now... by the time the benevbolent government you like so much got around to telling her they had tacked on about twice as much in late fees. penalties and interest...

she is making $12 an hour... forget health care... she can't pay the interest on the taxes... she has been paying a couple hundred bucks a month to the state and feds for 4 years and giving up all her tax refunds for those years... she may just get out from under the feds with this years tax refund sent to them but will take another year or so to pay off the state....if nothing bad happens in the mean time..

Her life is a living hell under your tax system... you would ask to make it worse. her mickey mouse job at least pays health care but nothing in the world can save her from the big brother you want us to embrace.

lazs

capt. apathy · « **Reply #50 on:** December 24, 2005, 12:56:27 PM »

yes I do think they could run it as well as it is ran now.

some things (not everything) are just better suited to be universally provided.

for example police and fire protection.

if the fire department ran like our health care system you'd be sitting out on the curb filling out forms while rushing back into the flames for your insurance card before they could start putting out your house.

or the police
"sorry to hear about your daughter mister Johnson. there is really nothing I can do. guess you should have kept up that rape coverage on your family policy"

police, fire, national defense, are all covered by the gov't because of the nature of the service. meaning when you need it you need it now, you have no time or ability to negotiate fairly, or wait for some pencil pusher to make a determination as to your eligibility, and opting not to use the service is not an option you'll likely survive. in short when you have a need of these services they have you over a barrel so we pay for them collectively at a price negotiated at a time outside the immediate need.

health care is the same type of service and needs to be handled in the same way.

as far as your friend. I feel for her. I've done the same thing and been in the same position myself. payments of $100 a month were really a ***** when construction work shuts down for the winter and the money is paid out of your UI check.

but how is this any different than shorting any other bill and having to pay what you owe? in my case I screwed up, claimed too may deductions early in the year on a short, heavy overtime job (were they tax you as if they think you are going to make that $3,600 a week for the whole year) and forgot to change it to the proper deductions when I returned to work for the same employer later that year on a 4 month, 50 hr per week job. they didn't take out enough taxes and I ended up owing the feds about a grand and Oregon 2k.

bottom line though was I screwed up, my screw up my job to make it right. if she screwed up and didn't pay enough taxes she needs to fix it, any complaining is really just crybaby crap.

Silat · « **Reply #51 on:** December 24, 2005, 04:13:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ah yes, research and development costs for new drugs, fighting new diseases is so cheap too! Why, if we force those drug company's to a set amount of profit I'm sure we can develope new drugs and cures for diseases!

We have been over this so many times.

Research is actually conducted on a large scale at Universities. Funded by guess who> We the people.
The drug and medical insurance industries operate at an overhead of between 15 and 30% compared to say medicade which has an overhead of between 2 and 7%.
Its about profits and nothing else.

Dago · « **Reply #52 on:** December 24, 2005, 05:03:46 PM »

I just want to know how so many of the "poor" can afford to spend ten thousand dollars in wheels for their car, and can afford to smoke cigarettes at $5 a pack, but can't afford to buy groceries without stamps?

How does that work?

How come they can collect welfare checks by riding a bus into my state then jumping on the bus and running back to their own state?

Why does the liberal complain about the Republican not controlling the budget, yet continue to elect democratic congressmen who push immoral levels of pork into bills before them?

Why does 50% of the money I make go to taxes, and why does someone complain if they Republican try to limit the taxes needed by trying to cut federal spending? Do they think the "poor" really have a right to the money I work for?

How come the poor don't actually strive to do better, attend school, or put more effort at least into holding a job and doing well in it so they can get promoted and make more money?

Why do limousine liberals dodge paying taxex?

dago

capt. apathy · « **Reply #53 on:** December 24, 2005, 09:58:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
How come the poor don't actually strive to do better, attend school, or put more effort at least into holding a job and doing well in it so they can get promoted and make more money?

dago

did you read the initial post?

why don't they attend school? did you read the part about cutting funding for student loans?

how much work would you miss if every doctor appointment involved spending half a day in the ER and then going home with your symptoms half treated.

you might be surprised how much bad health, living in high crime areas, and dependence on public transportation can effect your reliability.

if you really think the poor have it so easy, why don't you just donate all your stuff to the GOP and hop on that gravy train you see all the poor riding.

BTW- the guy with the $10K rims isn't poor he's a drug dealer. you're spot on with the cigs though. nothing pisses me off more than a guy complaining about being broke while spending $150 a month on tobacco.

Dago · « **Reply #54 on:** December 24, 2005, 10:06:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
did you read the initial post?

why don't they attend school? did you read the part about cutting funding for student loans?

if you really think the poor have it so easy, why don't you just donate all your stuff to the GOP and hop on that gravy train you see all the poor riding.

How about because I put myself through college while married? How about because I went weeks without being able to buy groceries while I did it? How about the fact that I worked every day while I was in school, including weekends, and only had holidays off???

Then, how about the fact that I started at the bottom of my career field making less than minimum wage (again, while married) and gained the experience that moved me up in my career?

No, since I paid my dues, I dont think I will give it all away, nor do I think I will extend a tremendous amount of pity for anyone who has put less work into trying to secure a future than I did. I pity those who lost everything because of a natural disaster like a hurricane, at least those who had earned something to lose.

And NO, I DONT WANT MORE OF MY TAXES to SUPPORT those who dont try to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

If someones idea of getting by is spending the day on the couch on the porch smoking, and the nights watching TV, then let them figure out a way to buy food and get medical care themselves. I dont want to pay for it.

dago

Masherbrum · « **Reply #55 on:** December 25, 2005, 08:07:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
BTW- the guy with the $10K rims isn't poor he's a drug dealer. you're spot on with the cigs though.

Wow, if this isn't stereotyping at it's finest. This torpedoes any argument you have.

Karaya

Dago · « **Reply #56 on:** December 25, 2005, 11:26:40 AM »

Really? Did I stereotype? Did I specify any particular group or race, or did you make your own stereotypical assumption? I was just talking about the poor, where did your mind lead you to?

dago

weaselsan · « **Reply #57 on:** December 25, 2005, 08:54:16 PM »

Damn...they started a war on the poor and Rummy never said a word to me about it. This is the second time he never let me in on one.

Dago · « **Reply #58 on:** December 25, 2005, 09:23:40 PM »

Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time.

Oh, wait a minute, that line has been used. Sorry.

Rude · « **Reply #59 on:** December 26, 2005, 11:04:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
I'd define poor by not being able to afford basic medical attention.

why is it we have no problem finding billions to fight a war to (at least today anyway, I'm sure we'll be there for a different reason if this one stops working) liberate Iraq, but we can't find the money for basic medical care for our own citizens?

we can blow up and rebuild Iraq, but my neighbor gets sick & is dying, his family's finances are devastated, all resources and efforts in the family go to wards caring for him(not sure what he has, there was some talk of naming the condition after him a few years back. not an 'honor' I'd ever want to receive). his wife and child (who moved back in to care for her parents) have to forgo medical attention since there is simply no money left after trying to keep him alive. finally after 4 or 5 years of neglecting her own health so her husband/family can survive, his wife simply has to go to the emergency room as her deteriorating health is so far gone that it can no longer be ignored, regardless of the fact that she can't afford it. her diagnosis "your cancer is systemic, if we could have diagnosed you 3 or 4 years ago we might have been able to do something for you but at this point you should focus on getting your affairs in order and spending time with your family"

the daughter may need a kidney transplant, due to damage mostly brought on by not getting basic medical attention after simple kidney infections. her mother is the most likely donor.

meanwhile he gets to live not only with his pain, reduced life, and impending demise but also with the likely hood that caring for him has killed his wife and maybe even his daughter.

this is a war, there are casualties.

"Richest Country in the World" - my ass. maybe in your neighborhood.

Maybe because.....this is not a Socialist country and life is tough sometimes. Still, this tall tale about no medical benefits being available to the poor is liberal chicken feed...know a Doctor? Ask him how indigent care is handled...they do not throw people out in the streets....btw....aren't you supposed to be apathetic?