Author Topic: Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders  (Read 3041 times)

Offline MiloMorai

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2005, 11:20:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
So, British and Americans invented concentration camps and murdered a lot of people there, and they weren't punished neither legally nor morally for that.


The Spanish had camps before the Brits and Americans. :eek:

The gulags were not some pleasure resort, either. :eek:

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2005, 11:48:42 AM »
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Nazis obtain a legal permit in Riga......are you listening for yourself?


So you're again claiming that a persons civil rights should be taken away because of his views?

While political imprisonement was daily and common in Soviet Union, this concept doesn't fall with the western ideals. Unless a country has outlawed nazism (such as Germany) they have a perfectly legal right to demonstrate just as anyone else. It has nothing to do with likeing them or not.

I have no idea of the current legislation down there but I assume they must allow participation in extreme right wing parties atm.

Extreme right wing parties were banned in Finland as a part of the peace agreement but extreme communists still have a right to exist here. IMO both kind of parties should be permanently banned - they're both fubar.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 11:52:35 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline Boroda

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2005, 12:20:32 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:05:49 PM by MP8 »

Offline expat

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2005, 01:18:09 PM »
Concentration camp
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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A concentration camp is a large detention center created for political opponents, aliens, specific ethnic or religious groups, civilians of a critical war-zone, or other groups of people, often during a war. The term refers to situations where the internees are persons selected for their conformance to broad criteria without judicial process, rather than having been judged as individuals. Camps for prisoners of war are usually considered separately from this category, although informally (and in some other languages) they may also be called concentration camps. The word "concentration" indicates a regional concentration, but it also implies the crowded, and often unhealthy, state of the facilities.

The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. defines concentration camp as:

a camp where non-combatants of a district are accommodated, such as those instituted by Lord Kitchener during the South African war of 1899-1902; one for the internment of political prisoners, foreign nationals, etc., esp. as organized by the Nazi regime in Germany before and during the war of 1939-45
Until Nazi Germany set up camps whose objective was either to use political opponents as forced labor (labor camps) or to kill them (extermination camps), and called them concentration camps to conceal their true purpose, the term was used relatively literally to mean simply a camp where a group of prisoners was concentrated, although conditions may have been less than ideal. Since then, no government or organization has set up camps by that particular name -- new terms being invented as euphemisms: internment camps, resettlement camps, etc.

Since the nature of Germany's so-called "concentration camps" became known (see below), the term is sometimes used propagandistically, with greater or lesser justification, to imply that a camp is designed to exterminate, rather than merely to concentrate, its inmates. For example, many of the slave-labor concentration camps were in fact used by major German corporate manufacturers (some still in existence) as cheap or free sources of factory labor.

The term is not often applied to Prisoner of war camps such as Andersonville during the American Civil War. Although large numbers of prisoners were concentrated there in horrific conditions from 1863 to 1865, and perhaps a quarter of them died, the prisoners were combatants and the camp is generally classified as a POW camp.

Early civilisations such as the Assyrians used forced resettlement of populations as a means of controlling territory, but it was not until much later that records exist of groups of civilians being concentrated into large prison camps.

In the English-speaking world, the term "concentration camp" was first used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during the 1899-1902 Second Boer War. Originally conceived as a form of humanitarian aid to the families whose farms had been destroyed in the fighting, the camps were later used to confine and control large numbers of civilians in areas of Boer guerilla activity. Tens of thousands of Boer civilians, and black workers from their farms, died as a result of diseases developed due to overcrowding, inadequate diets and poor sanitation. The term concentration camp was coined at this time to signify the "concentration" of a large number of people in one place, and was used to describe both the camps in South Africa (1899-1902) and those established by the Spanish to support a similar anti-insurgency campaign in Cuba (circa 1895-1898 [1]), although at least some Spanish sources disagree with the comparison [2].

Over the course of the twentieth century, the arbitrary internment of civilians by the authority of the state became more common and reached a climax with the practice of genocide in the death camps of the Nazi regime in Germany, and with the Gulag system of forced labor camps of the Soviet Union. As a result of this trend, the term concentration camp carries many of the connotations of extermination camp and is sometimes used synonymously. In technical discussion, however, it is important to understand that a concentration camp is not, by definition, always a Nazi-style death-camp.

What follows is a brief history of concentration camps established by various countries and regimes.

Ok thats about concentration camps , now why is everyone gettin upset about national armed forces perfoming an excersie?As long as they dont cross that border what business is it of ours? I mean are we to infrom the
CSA ever time we have an excercise ?dont think so.......
goggles on ,chocks away, last one backs a homo  hooraaaaaaaaay!

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2005, 01:30:28 PM »
No Boroda it is you who have interesting history books which spew propaganda on you. In the land Boroda Finland wouldn't have a right to imprison foreign nationals at all. That's logic I guess, knowing how peaceloving and harmless the russian population was (and is). I mean why on earth would one want to imprison them? Beats me.

Earlier we were talking about relabeling things for convenience. This is one fine example of that, courtesy of the red party.

Civillians were put to prison camps, true. There was shortage of food, true. But who told you to invade and settle our land in the first place? When the russian troops invaded karelia, what was done to the civillian population left behind? Please, I would really like to know.

Boroda doesn't seem to see a difference between a prison camp and a death camp. I guess in Soviet Union those two things were synonymes. :D
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline ATA

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2005, 05:21:28 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:08:26 PM by MP8 »

Offline Nilsen

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2005, 05:29:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:07:03 PM by MP8 »

Offline ATA

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2005, 05:54:09 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:11:31 PM by MP8 »

Offline 1K3

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2005, 07:13:02 PM »
jeeez ATA that's just out of bounds!

Offline Toad

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2005, 08:01:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
It is perfect excuse for everybody according case law.


You'll note that it is EXACTLY the excuse you use for so many Russian actions.

You'll also note that you can't find me "excusing" any concentration camps at all, in this thread or any other.

Nice try though.

Russians are still comedy gold. Without doubt the most entertaining folks on the board.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline ATA

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2005, 08:26:27 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:13:10 PM by MP8 »

Offline NUKE

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2005, 08:34:23 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:14:38 PM by MP8 »

Offline Jackal1

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2005, 08:48:07 PM »
Really the whole thing is hilarious. Russia? Who gives a rat`s patunia? In these days Russia is like the "before" picture in the old Joe Weider adds flexing muscle they can`t back up. Face it..Russia is over........done........caput ...........a pile of dinasaur bones slowly fossilizing. He`s dead Jim. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Vad

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2005, 09:03:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
You'll note that it is EXACTLY the excuse you use for so many Russian actions.
 


Toad, what are the actions you are talking about?
This is statistics of "Gulag":

Year    In custody
1934   510307  
1935   965742  
1936   1296494  
1937   1196369  
1938   1881570  
1939   1672438  
1940   1659992  
1941   1929729  
1942   1777043  
1943   1484182  
1944   1179819  
1945   1460677  
1946   1703095  
1947   1721543  
1948   2199535  
1949   2356685  
1950   2561351  
1951   2528146  
1952   2504514  
1953   2468524  

It includes all - political prisoners, criminals, those who collaborated with Nazi, etc.

I just want to remind you that according to Bureau of Justice (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm) "on December 31, 2004 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails".

It is almost the same numbers we had in the worst years of Stalinisim.

You don't know not only the history but reality of your own country.

Offline Toad

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Russia practises offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2005, 12:23:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
You don't know not only the history but reality of your own country.


See?

Russian Comedy Gold.

You guys are THE BEST!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!