Author Topic: This game is not user friendly  (Read 4063 times)

Offline Golfer

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2006, 11:12:00 AM »
The flying aspect of the game isn't terribly difficult to comprehend.  There is auto-takeoff for goodness sake...use it if that's a problem.

I've worked with first time flight simmers in the TA on their very first day and it takes only a few minutes to get them up and flying around.

use netaces.org to learn the airplanes you may or may not be familiar with.  Brush up on procedures and tactics.  There are some very good trainers out there who know the game backwards and forwards and can definately help you with the years of experience they have.

When I transitioned from AW to AH (bowing head for AW) I was a lost soul.  I didn't know the new keymaps and set everything to the way Air Warrior was.  I ended up getting into the training aspect (which is what I do for a living) of things and found that my key-commands being different than the default were hindering more than helping.  I had to re-learn all the key input commands AFTER I'd established my new habits in AH.  Even now...I hit Escape+E now and then when trying to bail out ;)

Don't sweat it SkevJ, everybody has a big learning curve.  A set training structure would help some but most wouldn't use it so why spend the dollars to build something very few will use?  Would you build a $100,000,000 bridge across a small creek in the middle of South Dakota?

Keep your chin up, and keep the whines on the BBs to a minimum and you'll be surprised how many will help.  Off the top of my head I can think of a few trainers:
Ghosth
Fuzeman
WideWing
TC (Tequila Chaser)

Offline bozon

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2006, 11:13:25 AM »
He has one good point.
The AH Help-page is not a tutorial or a walkthrough. It is written as a reference guide where you can check something. The way it is now it not good for continuous reading.

Most flight sims (especially the online types) assume some basic knowhow on how planes fly and what do ailerons do. IL2 went as far as to make takeoff/landing practice missions. AH gives the offline mode to crash yourself as you see fit till you learn, but absolutely no guidance for those without a clue.

A newbie guide should walk you through a few basic operations. It may not even be in-game guide, but it does have to tell you what to do in a checklist format, line by line. Every click on the interface needs to be spelled:
- hit ESC to bring up the clipboard
- click hangar
- choose spit XVI from the list :p
- select 100% fuel
- click NE runway at the bottom left of the board.
etc...

For total newbies:
1. takeoff lesson.
2. landing lesson.
3. VERY basic gunnery (on the offline drones) bomb drops and weapon selection in fighters
4. bomber operation (gunners bombsight, formation)
5. goon operations and base captures (a lot of newbiew fly goons)
.
.
etc

Then when they come to the main and die a lot - at least they die because they dont know how to fight, not because they dont know how to fly.

Quote
AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???

It happen and happens often and it's not a bug either. Any plane can "out turn" (or out-manuver) any other plane in the right conditions and especially if one knows what he's doing and the other don't. This is one of the more complicated things you need to learn. That stuff takes more than a tutorial.

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Skuzzy

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2006, 11:20:35 AM »
You do not have to wait for a trainer in the Training Arena.  Send an email to trainers@hitechcreations.com and you can schedule personal one-on-one time with a trainer.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline BlkKnit

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2006, 11:26:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Morph's 10 step Tutorial to play teh game!!1oneo!1!

For RR Ezy noob mode:
9) If you miss your shot extend for 25 miles for your saftey.

10) REVERS#E! come back to t-eh red icons and repeat steps 8&9 & 10 if needed untilz you got mad kilz.


Only 25 miles?  Whatcha trying to do, get him killed?


Seriously...there is a help file, its what I used :)

Once a Knight is Never Enough

Offline Schatzi

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2006, 11:33:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Compare that to a game like World of Warcraft where you just show up, hop in, and within an hour you can have the mechanics of the game fully understood as they literally walk you through an introductory area.  I'm not referring to training in the sense of how to become a better pilot, but rather an interface that is accessible to new users without losing the functionality that those of us with experience enjoy.

Just to use an example, take the stick mapping and stick configuration setup.  I've had to talk perfectly reasonable, intelligent people through how to use these functions because, while powerful, they were not intuitive and did not feature easily accessible tooltips.  Or for another example, why not floating help descriptions when mousing over options in the clipboard menu?  How many people are going to figure out that you have to go to the O'Club to do Squad stuff?  How many people will know intuitively that you have to invite someone to a squad in order to form a squad the first time?

-- Todd/Leviathn


I think theres a huge difference between games like WOW and a flight sim. I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?

The problem is, theres so many different stick types out there, all of which have their own quirks in setup.... i dont think you could make a simple tutorial for even a limited number of those. And then, half the people i see in TA start out with mouse. Hell, last week a guy was flying with game pad.
And, if you read the help file, itll tell you what to do as well. You just gotta read it. And, maybe, printout parts or all of it. Same goes for Netaces. Theres a one page reference for keymaps (printable) for download there, as well as step by step descriptions on how to configure your radio, stick, video, voice etc. and how to take off.

Im pretty much a regular in the TA. from European late afternoon to US late night, you generally dont have to wait long for someone to show up that can help you with basics. Ive seen the very people i helped the day before to get their stick setup and the plane flying giving tips and help to the newcomers.

I think AH has a very good and effective training system. Does it serve you things on a platter? Certainly not. Can it be improved? Certainly, and it constantly IS.


But, youll have to make your own effort to get things started. I dont think one can expect a SIM and its programmers to make up for their lack of willingness to read at least a help file.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 11:36:00 AM by Schatzi »
21 is only half the truth.

Offline uberhun

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2006, 11:40:45 AM »
SkevJ
 The whole attraction to the game is the deep learning and comprehension curve. It takes alot of dedication and patience to even become remotely proficient. I can appreciate your frustration. HTC has been very gracious by allowing the two week trial period to see if you like it. It is more sim then game bro. Flight physics and tactical application of those charecteristics are pretty much the foundation of the game. The MA does not represent that a 100 % of the time but the handling chareteristics are their all of the time. The flight modlling is very well represented. I think everyone has a pre concieved idea of what the game will be like when they first get on. I guarantee you most of them are shocked by the reality of it in respects to what they expected. So Skev the point to this rant is it is not your out of the box from best buy flight sim. IL2, Pacific theater, F18 etc, etc, etc. This is and will be the dominate online flight sim and will only become more complex as time goes on. So saddle up and prepare yourself for a long ride!
It is heroin in Cyber world!:t

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2006, 12:09:32 PM »
How about you tell us your in game ID so when someone sees you on line they are capable of knowing who you are and that you need help?
If you don't receive Jesus Christ, you don't receive the gift of righteousness.

Be A WARRIOR NOT A WORRIER!

Offline slimey_J

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2006, 12:29:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkevJ
You guys see this? AH developers are you reading this? This is money right here!!! Money!!!! You have to give the people what they want

Bah, yeah there's money alright... so far, a whopping 30 or 45 bucks.

I'm sure the devs have this kind of stuff in the works, but it's a matter of priority - and right now Combat Tour is likely number 1... and I'm sure they'll make more money off of Combat Tour than they would with a new "relaxed realism" arena.

(Relaxed Realism...? I think a lot of AH players would be embarrassed to fly in that type of game.)

Offline indy007

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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2006, 12:34:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schatzi
I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?


Over 700 pages. I've read it... twice. I still have problems with HARM deployments. I've never actually shot a Maverick yet. Sometimes I get stuck in CCIP mode and the bombs won't release, and I don't know why (yes, Master Arm is switched ON).

AH would be much, much easier if some of the people in the furball weren't so good :)

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2006, 12:37:23 PM »
shades.
If you don't receive Jesus Christ, you don't receive the gift of righteousness.

Be A WARRIOR NOT A WORRIER!

Offline jaxxo

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« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2006, 12:43:12 PM »
man he got alot with that troll lol

Offline Stang

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2006, 01:34:20 PM »
:noid

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2006, 01:50:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schatzi
I think theres a huge difference between games like WOW and a flight sim. I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?
[/b]

Again, let me reiterate that I am talking only about user interface issues and not game playability issues.  So obviously a game like WoW differs substantially from AH in its overall learning curve, and flight sims clearly require a more substantial investment of time to master.  However, I think some of the fundamental user interface lessons from games like WoW remain; they make clear how to manipulate the game controls, what various menu options do, how to customize, how to set up video and sound, etc.  How many people ask what the E6B on the clipboard means?  Why not a quick mouseover description of it for new players?  Is it intuitive to place squadron functions in the O'Club?  Would new players think to look there for them?  Why not give a gameplay tip when loading plane skins (something like "Alt-I changes how you view friends and enemies" or "Shift-F alternates between automatic and manual fuel tank selection")?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.  Obviously learning how to fly and fight is another matter entirely.  I have little sympathy for those unwilling to put in the time and effort on that front, but I feel some empathy toward those who find the interface itself daunting and unfriendly.  I'm not talking about training issues here.

-- Todd/Leviathn
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 01:53:05 PM by Dead Man Flying »

Offline Schatzi

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This game is not user friendly
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2006, 02:21:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


Again, let me reiterate that I am talking only about user interface issues and not game playability issues.  So obviously a game like WoW differs substantially from AH in its overall learning curve, and flight sims clearly require a more substantial investment of time to master.  However, I think some of the fundamental user interface lessons from games like WoW remain; they make clear how to manipulate the game controls, what various menu options do, how to customize, how to set up video and sound, etc.  How many people ask what the E6B on the clipboard means?  Why not a quick mouseover description of it for new players?  Is it intuitive to place squadron functions in the O'Club?  Would new players think to look there for them?  Why not give a gameplay tip when loading plane skins (something like "Alt-I changes how you view friends and enemies" or "Shift-F alternates between automatic and manual fuel tank selection")?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.  Obviously learning how to fly and fight is another matter entirely.  I have little sympathy for those unwilling to put in the time and effort on that front, but I feel some empathy toward those who find the interface itself daunting and unfriendly.  I'm not talking about training issues here.

-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]



Why not read the help file? Its all in there and more.


And im not talking about training issues either. Ive helped more then one newbie to get his stuff set up. From mouse to stick, vid, radio, settings. And NONE was ever the same. Im not sure how a tutorial could be set up for so many eventualities of OS, JS, GC, Headset, Memory etc.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 02:23:40 PM by Schatzi »
21 is only half the truth.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2006, 02:24:17 PM »
I agree with Levi..

 IMO AH was designed from the start to accomodate people who were already familiar with basic on-line combat flight sim control interfaces, such as tower movement, hangar selection, basic flight features and etc etc.. While not officially, AH probably can be considered as a successor to AW and WarBirds, the same key staff who made WB made AH, uses many simular concepts and system controls as the previous games, and many of the players who started AH were ex-AW/WB players.

 However, people shouldn't treat AH as if it would always be the same people we used to know playing the game. Quite many years passed since AH first came. Kids who were in elementary schools are now teenagers showing their first interest in flight-sim games. It is entirely possible a good portion of the AH population has never played WB/AH before. In about ten years (though a sad fact...) the old AW/WB generation might become a disappearing kind.

 What then?


 Being "User Friendly" is now an irreversible trend in the game industry. While I hate to say this as an devout AH fan, there are currently many problems with Aces High as a game, that goes unnoticed or overlooked just because most of us are old-time flight sim enthusiasts.

 We used to play games that were entirely text based, for crying out loud! :) For us, the current interface is more than enough, quickly adaptable, and to a degree very familiar - but that's just because we are getting old. Compared with some of the other on-line games, their basic manuals are getting thinner everyday. In some cases there are no paper-printed manuals at all, the game sells with only with a simple document, and all the rest of the troubleshooting/FAQ issues can be accessed entirely via the game. Visual/video explanations, practice sessions and lessons, in-game tutorials.. pictorial guides, etc etc..

 Currently, all of the above, in AH, is taken care of by a handful of volunteers. However, as a complete game, in reality AH shoud have been preparing such measures from the start. Come on guys, even the official home pages planes/vehicles section hasn't been updated for a very long time.

 Like Levi said, it's not a matter of gameplay. It's a matter of basic caretaking for the newcomer to the game, the new generations who'd first start out flight sim games with AH. And in that sense, AH is, unfortunately, wholely unprepared. Accessing the functions are terrible. The simple mouse wheel functons don't work. People have to type in dot commands. The arena settings are often hard to understand, and in most cases the effects and such aren't even explained in the help files.

 Like HT's own words, it is because AH started with a core group, serving a small number of flight sim fans... "making some money while we make the game we want"... everything starts out small, and while it was small these problems weren't that a big thing. However, like it or not, AH is now the foremost leading game in the on-line flight simulation genre of the entire world. The AW/WB competition is dead. Other online-WW2 games are struggling to perfect what they have.

 As a matter of fact, this discussion goes along the same lines with the graphics discussion. Times are changing, game customers are getting more and more picky about the visual qualities of their games. AH was okay when every body in the MA used to know each other, started out from the old WB and AW when graphics were simple. But now we have players who were in their cribs when we were playing flight sim games. These guys became teenagers in the late 90's. They grew up with graphics. When all of us go old and tired, unable to play AH anymore, will the new generation of gamers still stick with AH? Graphically lagging behind times, unfrinedly to new users?

 Frankly, IMO, it is only a matter of time before some large company takes interest in WW2 vintage aircraft combat genre... create a big hype, user-friendly websites, cool graphics, simple and easy to access game functions.. and the worst thing is that the younger people are gonna flock to it, rather than stay with AH. We can laugh and scorn all day long, while MA numbers go down one by one. Who'd have ever thought AW or WB would meet such a quick demise? What's there to stop AH from facing the same fate?

 IMO, innovations - that's to stop AH from meeting such a fate.