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Author Topic: Civil liberities at risk.  (Read 2038 times)

Offline 2Slow

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2006, 01:10:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Hangtime wrote:

 

Nope. Nor do I feel any more threatened. Is this bad?

Just a question for you folks. And trust me , I'm not trolling or trying to minimize anything here , but does this REALLY have any effect on you what so ever?

I mean of ALL the things that have come since 9-11 I can't really think of 1 thing outside of airport security that effects me daily or even periodocally.

I have my morning Coffee and Cigs. I get ready for work the same. Live the same. Eat out with the wife quite often. My home doesn't feel any different. I still play golf as often as I can. My job is basically the same as it was pre 9-11.

I just see very little in MY personal life that has changed post 9-11.

The governement were robbin us blind in taxes before and are now. Gas was high and is higher. It is dipping into our civil liberties? I can still say what I want when I want. I go where I want when I want.

I do what I want when I want.

I'm just asking folks.....Does this really effect you or is it just another thing to worry about.


"but does this REALLY have any effect on you what so ever?"

This very moment?  This very hour?  This very day?  Probably not.  However, I am looking to the future.  My 9 year old daughters future.  My grandchildrens future.  Refer to Adams and Franklin.  It is something we should be concerned about.

One needs more than the "consumer" point of view.  One needs the "citizen" point of view.  The future of what has been intrusted to us by the efforts of citizens and patriots past.
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Offline Eagler

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just curious ....
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2006, 07:10:54 AM »
since dope has now entered the thread...

how many of you who are worried about lost "civil liberties", twist up a lefty now and again?

I think your concern has to do with your lifestyle and its possible implications into your illegal habit(s)...as much if not more than anything else..
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Offline lazs2

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2006, 08:33:25 AM »
I never felt threatened when a couple of terrorists figured out how to use an airliner for a bomb and crash into some blue areas.

I do feel threatened when some government lacky tells me to take off my shoes and prepare to be searched because I want to go visit a relative by comercial flight.

on the other hand.... I do not feel threatened if my international calls are being listened to when I am speaking to foreigners.

lazs
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Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2006, 08:36:03 AM »
Lazs is just a pothead that has something to hide. Give it up Lazs, that's obviously the only reason you won't succumb to the government's wants.
-SW
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Offline 2Slow

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Re: just curious ....
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2006, 08:45:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
since dope has now entered the thread...

how many of you who are worried about lost "civil liberties", twist up a lefty now and again?

I think your concern has to do with your lifestyle and its possible implications into your illegal habit(s)...as much if not more than anything else..



"twist up a lefty now and again?"  Huh?  I am not familiar with the slang.

Let me assure you, "illegal habit(s)" are not a concern of mine.  Nor is it a motivator of my concerns about our liberties.  Perhaps I should not have risen to the bait and responded to the "drug" item.

I have seen some very interesting discussion on both sides of the liberties issue.
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Offline lazs2

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2006, 08:59:27 AM »
wolfie... no.. I have holes in my socks and am ticklish.

lazs
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Offline Eagler

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2006, 09:36:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
wolfie... no.. I have holes in my socks and am ticklish.

lazs


not to mention ur embarrassing foot odor problem :)
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Offline Hangtime

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2006, 01:13:41 PM »
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

"hey.. I'm not a criminal, I've got nothing to hide and don't need THOSE 'civil rights', so I could care less if they start watching 'illegaly' every thing I do."

Your choices are to stick yer head back in the sand and ignore this erosion of your constitional rights or speak out NOW, force the Executive to play by the LEGAL rules.

It's a big choice folks.. and it's up to us to choose.
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Offline lazs2

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2006, 02:40:20 PM »
And as a former criminal... the wire tap thing is not really a big deal to me... we allways assumed that every line was tapped.

A smart person would do that today.... no matter what the laws are or aren't.

lazs
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Offline Hangtime

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2006, 03:29:37 PM »
LOL... my wife used to answer the phone in her college days with:

"**** HOOVER!... go ahead, this is Chris."

Still cracks me up... she grew up to be the President of an Insurance Company. She calls me a 'Bastard', I reply with "Sellout". Infuriates the hell outta her.

hehhehhehhehheee
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Offline BluKitty

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Re: just curious ....
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2006, 03:51:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
since dope has now entered the thread...

how many of you who are worried about lost "civil liberties", twist up a lefty now and again?

I think your concern has to do with your lifestyle and its possible implications into your illegal habit(s)...as much if not more than anything else..


Attacking the person and not the issue can make you look stupid.  Try to stick to attacking the issue and not the people that are aginst your point of view.

Are you a fan of Rove?
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Re: just curious ....
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2006, 07:41:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BluKitty
Attacking the person and not the issue can make you look stupid.  Try to stick to attacking the issue and not the people that are aginst your point of view.

Are you a fan of Rove?


I am attacking no one ... if the shoe fits ..
.. they can't help it, it does make one paraniod :)

and as laz stated, any and all phone lines can be tapped at anytime (ie way b4 911), you'll only know about it if they want you to..
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Offline 2Slow

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2006, 07:47:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

"hey.. I'm not a criminal, I've got nothing to hide and don't need THOSE 'civil rights', so I could care less if they start watching 'illegaly' every thing I do."

Your choices are to stick yer head back in the sand and ignore this erosion of your constitional rights or speak out NOW, force the Executive to play by the LEGAL rules.

It's a big choice folks.. and it's up to us to choose.


DITTO
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2Slow
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2006, 10:00:16 PM »
Well, someone agrees.  Lawsuits were filed today against both the Pres. and the NSA.  In NY by the Center for Constitutional Rights, and in Denver by the ACLU.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/17/politics/main1215238.shtml

Not sure what good a court order to cease and desist will do if Bush really and truly is flouting the law to start with.  I mean, I have to believe that he didnt actually think "Oh, this is illegal but I dont care, and I want to set myself up as a dictator."  If I am to retain any faith in our system of govt. at all, then I have to believe Bush truly felt he was acting within his prescribed powers, and that he was doing what he was doing for the good of the country.  Even if he was misled, or just plain stupid.  Even then, if he is truly convinced what he is doing is in our best interests, will he stop if ordered to?
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Offline 2Slow

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Civil liberities at risk.
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2006, 10:11:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Well, someone agrees.  Lawsuits were filed today against both the Pres. and the NSA.  In NY by the Center for Constitutional Rights, and in Denver by the ACLU.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/17/politics/main1215238.shtml

Not sure what good a court order to cease and desist will do if Bush really and truly is flouting the law to start with.  I mean, I have to believe that he didnt actually think "Oh, this is illegal but I dont care, and I want to set myself up as a dictator."  If I am to retain any faith in our system of govt. at all, then I have to believe Bush truly felt he was acting within his prescribed powers, and that he was doing what he was doing for the good of the country.  Even if he was misled, or just plain stupid.  Even then, if he is truly convinced what he is doing is in our best interests, will he stop if ordered to?


The last thing I want is to have the ACLU agree with me.  I don't know if the law has been broken.  There appears to be a lot of room for interpretation of what is authorized and allowed.

What has bothered me is the trend to encroach and infringe on the scope of our liberties.

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the rights of the people by the gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)

“the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946
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