Author Topic: Lazer Buff guns  (Read 6228 times)

Offline lazs2

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #120 on: January 24, 2006, 08:01:13 AM »
why do you see films of germans just pummeling b17/b24's from dead six at close range... seemingly taking their time shooting at engines and wing roots?

simple...  the gunners on the fluffs are all dead.   even weak german machine guns sending 20 0r 50 rounds down that flimsy tube of aluminum that is a fluff... even those often rifle caliber bullets will only stop when they hit meat...

Imagine 100 50 caliber rounds shredding every human that doesn't have armor plate between him and the fighter pouring rounds into the fluff from even a ded six at even 400 yards.  

The gunners don't die easy enough....  and... as morph says..  The guns all being slaved to one mouse weilder makes for some pretty unrealistic results.

But then... if it was a little more realistic in results..... who would do it?

It is like bombing CV's... they are about as durable as light bulbs and as easy to hit as the ground in this game...  the models seem ok it is just the results that don't make sense...  level 4 engine bombers never sank a cv in real life combat..  here... it is childs play.

mixing fighters and bombers in a game without 10 man crewed bombers or fear of death is a difficult proposition...

making so that one mouse weilder can do the work of 30 guys and still get realistic results seems impossible.

lazs
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Offline tatertot

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #121 on: January 24, 2006, 08:43:54 AM »
booz  thanks for thge words! trust me it takes along time to be efficient with a buff gun those 44-74 is exactly what i mean what is thaqt like 60% of the time i die   its all in the attack you can say whatever about the lazer tags on buffs but if you make the right approach im dead tyrust me,mostguys dont take the time to be patiant on a attack,from the 6 or 12 almost always does equal a death for the fighter from high 11 or 2 means a death for the buff most likely.9 and 3 are a tuff shot in 17s and 26s but not as bad in a ki so its all the same imo you fighter guys know your bullet pattern or were to place the shot.   buffs do have a advantage but you still have to know the gun set up angle of the shot and were the spray will go



id like to do a setup in the da sometime were myself and anyone else would like to fly buffs could go against some fighters so we can actualy post these attack ideas anyone interested???


 we could leave the lazer idea out !!!!!!!!
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline lazs2

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #122 on: January 24, 2006, 09:01:52 AM »
most people don't take the time to get the best shot on the fluffs because they know that the low level, mouse weilding, enemy of fun, suicide porker is on his way to killing the best fight on the map by taking out the carports called fighter hangers or the bulb glass CV...

lazs
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Offline gatt

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2006, 09:37:01 AM »
Yep, LW gun cameras are not useful to judge real gunners response. I've seen many of those films and almost always you can see scattered formations or crippled stragglers being attacked.

Nonetheless, the fact that it was only the tail gunner able to fire against level 6'oc attackers (and maybe the dorsal turret) ... and not the all the guns of the buff, *is* important as far as lethality is concerned. This "feel free to fire thru your buff and the other buffs" is annoying indeed.

Tater,
true, most fighter pilots dont have the patience to position themselves (and their wingies) in the right position before the attack. Yesterday I was winging with DC in our two K-4 and nailed a B-24 vic. I climbed forward and positioned myself 2,000yds in front of the buffs. DC climbed 2.5 above and slightly behind them. Then I reversed and attacked Head-On: the buff pilot was fixated on DC so I put on fire the central buff, in the meantime DC came down and shot down a second buff and got the third kill as well. The whole thing took some minutes to build and honestly I seldom have the patience to do it. But it was worth it, indeed  :)
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline tatertot

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #124 on: January 24, 2006, 09:57:43 AM »
see gatt you tag teamed the 24s right ??? anyone in the ma who is attacking the buffs by thereselves is a 95% kill imo or at least severe damage you stated target fixation when i gun i do just around alot gun to gun this atleast gives me a chance i never have a gunner onboard myself again i am not against the issue at hand all guns shouldnt fire at the same time my biggest poiunt is i dont think this is as easily fixed in the ma as it would be in the ca or tod arenas because of the fact ma ive personaly never had escorts how many guys can say everytime they up buffs excorts are along???? even in missions your escorts get spread out.


lazer guns have been discussed for along time  i just dont see it as a easy fix myself,maybe just a little change for the ma would suffice soime ,like the fact 3 buffs ok only 3 guns control at same time ie if your in tail turret thats all that fire and or same for ball etc .



 my biggest question is what is everyone askikng for  anyway
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline tatertot

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2006, 10:25:00 AM »
ok i actualy went back and reread what Morph is talking about and i actualy agree to a point,ive stated this in a earlier replay,but here comes what i do not agree with everyone states that buff guns are not realistic ok like i said i agree but for every thing that is realistic there are many points of this game that is not right???????? isnt this what they are trying to do in tod give you the idea you are actualy a pilot of ww2 rank missions and such      


case number 1 ) furballing isnt realistic either is it
 
2) no one in ww2 spawned to a vh and camped most battles were on the move unless either side was dug in ??? am i not right ??/
 
3) cv has much much more defense a 110 couldnt straff its guns and live
and this is my crime i admit it but over the last 4 yrs i do live after i drop it now in most cases just for the sake of a argument

4)vulching for 30 min wasnt done  i believe this could be argued to a point 51s and such did straff runways ammo dumps vhs towns what ever


my point is tod is gonna take the ma idea away and make it a more relistic pilot deal right ??? if they were to change just buffs guns they would have toi revamp everything in the ma that is unrealistic because some one is always not going to agree with something.



 be patient its aclose as you will get to ww2 pilot realism in your life right ????
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline tatertot

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2006, 10:47:57 AM »
booz just how do you check all that i have filmed shawks attacks on me and 999000 and it is probaly one of the top 2 attacks even studying his approach i cannot kill him and niether can 999000 like i said master the approach before we condem it all !!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline Simaril

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2006, 10:50:28 AM »
One additional thought on the LW gun cams:


The only ones we get to see are the ones where the guy lived.



How many others tried the 6 attack against live gunners and never lived? Since the data set is skewed, its results will be biased.


I'd encourage usto thnk about the Buff situation from the GAMEPLAY standpoint rather than the reproduced realtity standpoint. Like Lazs said,

Quote
mixing fighters and bombers in a game without 10 man crewed bombers or fear of death is a difficult proposition...



Look at the end results, and I gotta say that the EFFECT of our current setup is about right for the game. And, it comes close enought to reality - attack bufs wrong and your dead, but do it right and they are -- pretty darn well.
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
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Offline Saxman

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #128 on: January 24, 2006, 11:55:14 AM »
As far as CVs, it's worth pointing out that carriers are HARDLY used intelligently in the MA. No CV commander during the real war would park his ship a mile off the runway within range of shore defenses, OR sit in one place while a formation of bombers roared overhead.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline soupcan

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2006, 03:12:26 PM »
lazs2
u are in error sir regarding to use of 4 engine bombers
against capital ships.
the sister ship of the bizmark the turpitz (might have spelled it wrong)
was actively hunted by a group of British Lancs who eventually caught up
to it and sunk it in a fiord of Norway.

I can also assure u that sinking a well defended CV in buffs is not childsplay.

As far as buffs ruining your furball or more likely your vultchfest
i will concede that if there is a vultchfest/furball going on over my field
yes i will drop FHs at nearest enemy  base....
this is not to "ruin your fun" this is so my countrymen can get off the ground
and move the "furball" to over your field instead of mine. hopefully my
countrymen can get a cap going and eventually we take your field.

as a final note to all the anti-buff crowd.....
dont forget the DA is open 24 hours for endless furballing enjoyment
pretty rare to find a "no skill toolsheding buff dweeb" dropping hangers
in there.
Addicted since tour 62.
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Offline Iceman24

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #130 on: January 24, 2006, 03:15:18 PM »
IMHO there are only a few buff sticks out there that can hit a plane diving in the blind spot between the tail gun and top gun, one of them being 999000, but now I'm on the same side as him I really don't have the evil fear of the lazer guns anymore. I would say 90% of the time I can knock out all 3 buffs, any kind with just about any AC, but there are a few buff sticks that employ the "freaking lazer beams" and seem to make impossible shots

Offline tatertot

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #131 on: January 24, 2006, 04:18:31 PM »
iceman taking your point of view is it a game issue or id the gunner a good shot???
THE NAME TATERTOT IS NOT FROM MY FAV FOOD !!!!!!

Offline Iceman24

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« Reply #132 on: January 24, 2006, 04:34:10 PM »
sorry should have made it more clear.... I think it has more to do with the stick than the way the guns are modded, like so many other aspects of this game, like using field guns for example, if you practice long enough and do enough sorty's then eventually you will develop uncanny skills, such as 999000 with his "freakin lazer beams" and zazen in his magic "osti of death" or even Morph in a spitfire... if you fly it, drive it or shoot it long enough you will eventually be able to pop anything from aways out... I used to not be able to hit crap in a fighter, but after working at it I can now hit planes using a snapshot at like  D800-D1000 out in a 38. I do however see yall's point about all the guns converging at D600 and do agree there should be some type of randomizer or something that throws the guns off a little, maybe make it to where when you shoot the .50 cals the screen shakes or something because of the recoil of the guns. On the topic of accuracy, I have heard and read about strategy's and missions where the US would up a large group of B25's and not put any ordinance in them, but they had extra .50 cal ammo, and they would fly in large formations trying to sucker in german attackers, they also had P51's flying escort, but the main reason was to sucker them in and chew em to pieces with the buff guns, then once they were focussed on the B25's the pony's would drop in and waste em...

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #133 on: January 24, 2006, 04:57:15 PM »
prince of wales and repulse

Offline ghi

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Lazer Buff guns
« Reply #134 on: January 24, 2006, 05:27:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
Yep, LW gun cameras are not useful to judge real gunners response.  


WHy not?
Gun cameras movies here

and   ->  here
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 05:33:49 PM by ghi »