Author Topic: FoMoCo crash and burn (Read 1963 times)

Toad · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:41:19 PM »

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Originally posted by indy007
Probably not the answer everybody wanted, huh?

Nope.

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Now Main Street's white washed windows and vacant stores

seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to

your hometown

Skuzzy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:45:58 PM »

You cannot build quality into a product, it must be designed into the product.

I just got rid of a 10 year old Infinity I30 with 140,000 miles on it. The interior of that car looked brand new. No exaggeration. It looked like it was just driven off the showroom floor. After 10 years of insane Texas weather!

Now, show me any American designed vehicle after 10 years of the same Texas weather and take a look at it. I promise you, it will look bad. faded color, cracks in the vinyl, seams pulled apart, seat cushions collapsed, and a malady of other problems will plague American designed cars.

If you use cheaper materials to increase profit margins, then you end up with a cheaper quality vehicle. No other reason to use cheap materials. The American car companies can use the same materials used in that Infinity.

I looked hard at the new Mustang. I wanted to like it. I love the exterior styling of it. But the interior just turned me off. It was/is cheap materials. So I took a look at the new Corvette. Beautiful car. Fast, but again, the interior was assembled from cheap materials. Even the leather used in the bucket seats felt cheap.

So why emphasize the interior? Well, most repairs to the interior of a car are very expensive. Also, there is a greater chance the interior will not be assembled back into the condition it was when it came from the factory. So, I want a car whose interior is made from quality materials. I cannot find an American car which fits the bill.

EDIT: Toad, I know you are pro union, but unions, in general, are doing more damage than good to the ability of America to be a manufacturing country with thier current practices.

Gunthr · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:49:08 PM »

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I think Ford has great products.

The Mustang is an amazing car.

The F Series pickups are the best in the market.

The Freestyle is a great mini-van/suv.

I don't think their problem is product. Go to a Ford dealer and try any of those out and tell me they are not something you would want to own.

Maybe Habu, but lets stick with sales. The bottom line is, Ford sales have plummeted while Toys and Nissans have literally skyrocketed...

Certainly high union wages impact profit margin for US car makers, but the Fords aren't selling regardless! It has to be the product! A significant number of people don't want those vehicles. The Taurus will now only be manufactured as a fleet car now, sale of new Taurus's to individuals will be discontinued. The Freestyle is going to be discontinued too. Why? Maybe people don't like the styling, or the reliability/quality, perceived value or functional design. Whatever, Ford is mostly missing the target, no matter what country's workers are making it.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:54:11 PM »

That is also the ther side of the coin. The dealerships and sales practices have not kept up with the times.

Walk onto a Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, Honda, or Toyota lot. The sales methods are very different than that of Ford or GM. I hate going to a Ford and/or GM lot. It is not a pleasant experience.
Conversely, when I bought my Lexus, it was actually quite relaxing and damn near fun to do.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:08:47 PM »

Another area ford and GM are way behind on is warranties. Lots of other makes are offering more the 3 years 36k.

Hell Even jeep figured this out.

Last time I looked GM and ford are still sticking with 3/36. The right there coupled with the percieved qaulity diference is enough to turn people away.
_____________________________ _____________________________ __

The writing is on the wall for the UAW, its dead. GM and ford in 5 years will probably produce very little in the US and I bet most is not in union shops.

Why can't the unions see this coming and try and comprimise on salary? Isn’t taking a pay and benifits cut better then being out of work?

Shamus · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:20:04 PM »

Toyota's average hourly factory wage in the U.S. $26.50, GM's $27.13 I would think Ford is in there someplace.

Why is Toyota doing so well in North America and the other two so poorly?

shamus

straffo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:20:51 PM »

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Originally posted by Skuzzy
EDIT: Toad, I know you are pro union, but unions, in general, are doing more damage than good to the ability of America to be a manufacturing country with thier current practices.

Well , in all cases it's the result of a faulty management ,dealing with union is also part of the bizness.

Debonair · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:22:38 PM »

I got an 11 year old ford.
It runs great, never caused me any trouble & except once two years ago when the coolant pump went belly up, from where that happened it was all downhill to the shop. & i dont baby it either. It lives outside five years in AZ & six going on forever in OR. Best $13k i ever spent.
However in the 90s ford was making $ & good cars as well apparently. One can only guess they are crap now looking at the numbers, but i dont know, i dont pay a lot of attention because i dont need a new car & it look like i never will

Suave · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:37:10 PM »

The problem with american autos is that they're built to not last, probably deliberately. That's why their resale value sucks. Yeah fords stay together longer than chevys, but that's not saying much.

indy007 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:43:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Shamus
Toyota's average hourly factory wage in the U.S. $26.50, GM's $27.13 I would think Ford is in there someplace.

Why is Toyota doing so well in North America and the other two so poorly?

shamus

Marketing, service (including part recalls, customer relations, etc), warranty coverage, reputation... Ford never really evolved either. A good example of a company that is adapting is Toyota. They rolled out the Scion brand, with a completely different sales strategy. There is no negotiation. I've seen customers get kicked out of the store because they demanded the sales people negotiate on the price. Part of the theory is to get new customers into Toyota brands... the other part is to train customers on the new sales process early on so that as Toyota makes that transition, people are already comfortable with the concept. Pick the car off the menu, that's what you get, that's what you pay for. The average age of a Toyota owner, iirc, is in their 50s. They're terrified of becoming another Oldsmobile, and are putting a process in place to fix that, decades in advance.

...what are the US brands doing?

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:46:49 PM »

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Originally posted by indy007
Marketing, service (including part recalls, customer relations, etc), warranty coverage, reputation... Ford never really evolved either. A good example of a company that is adapting is Toyota. They rolled out the Scion brand, with a completely different sales strategy. There is no negotiation. I've seen customers get kicked out of the store because they demanded the sales people negotiate on the price. Part of the theory is to get new customers into Toyota brands... the other part is to train customers on the new sales process early on so that as Toyota makes that transition, people are already comfortable with the concept. Pick the car off the menu, that's what you get, that's what you pay for. The average age of a Toyota owner, iirc, is in their 50s. They're terrified of becoming another Oldsmobile, and are putting a process in place to fix that, decades in advance.

...what are the US brands doing?

Digging their own grave, and the UAW is making the shoddily built overpriced coffin?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #26 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:49:05 PM »

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Originally posted by straffo
Well , in all cases it's the result of a faulty management ,dealing with union is also part of the bizness.

And it is a shame the management has so little control over thier own company.

Do not get me wrong. I think upper management for large corporations has gotten out of control with greed and corruption, for the most part. But I do not beleive the unions are the answer for that situation.

For every right you can associate with a union, there is a wrong which can be matched to it as well.

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:54:28 PM »

"Savings from job cuts are limited by the auto maker's union contract. Hourly employees who do not take early retirement packages enter a jobs bank retraining program in which they collect full pay and benefits while waiting for a spot to open up on an assembly line."

How many workers from the dozen or so plants that are closing are going to be sitting around still making full pay? How can Ford NOT be heading toward ever-decreasing profits with this type of labor contract?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #28 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:57:16 PM »

Ok, that is pretty screwy.

Gunthr · « **Reply #29 on:** January 23, 2006, 03:13:31 PM »

Its ironic that Toyota, the most successful car maker on the planet, is doing it by moving manufacturing jobs TO the USA! As opposed to outsourcing to places like China or India.