remember the 109

[bagrat]

remember when if strategically or somewhat cautiosly flown you could enter and leave a battle with handfull of kills....(the G-10)?

we now have K4 and G-14.........

K4 can escape a fight without much difficulty, but with what purpose.  1 30mm cannon is some what like a yak except without turning ability to help line up a shot, leading to generally leaving empty handed.

G-14 cant turn fight with anything except maybe a bomber. Guns are good but still difficult to line up a shot. also if given a chance most other quicker fighters can catch it with ease.

so i guess with 109's choice comes down to, survive with no kills or possibly get a kill or two but probably not escape the fight.

and the FLAPS, are they only meant to make a smoother landing?
Im in G-14 an decided to attempt to turn fight with a p-38 (dumb mistake)
so were in the middle of turnin and he is slowly out turnin me, But wait! im goin about 180mph, I can now deploy flaps to help me in my turn,WRONG!
they still dont deploy, they did not deploy until I was goin under 160mph.

My point I guess is with 109 and these standards it seems to encourage "cherry picking" being the only reasonable fighting tactic.

[Bruv119]

I flew the 109K last night with a trusted wingman and using pure BnZ tactics this plane  cannot be caught.  

You do need a large amount of planes furballing to get a good chance at a pick.


2 x 3 kill runs with the ability to have done more.

In regards to the 65 cannon ammo you obviously have the secondary trigger on a diff button,  it only needs one sprite to break a plane 2 shots will make sure.  

Shooting the big cannon i do it from 200 or less  saw trikky smoke my friend from 600 1 shot.

Practice.

the 109 k  is a gift for all LW pilots un catchable fly like a robot up down and pick.

[gatt]

Bagrat, not completely true ... with the K-4 you can furball (sort of, I'm not very good at it) but the 30mm is not of much help. Since you cant saddle on your foe you usually have to use high deflection shooting at very close range when the foe breaks and cross thru your gunsight. But then again, sometimes the foe seems to fly between two 30mm shells ...
When and if you learn to use the Mk108 the 65 rounds are usually enuff to down 2-3 fighters and a whole box of bombers.

As far as the G-14 is concerned, if you wanna a high performance MW-50, 1700hp, mid 1944 fighter, forget it until his FM is fixed. Acceleration and max speed at altitudes are way off. With the gondolas it maneuver like a slow fat pig. If you wanna to be effective with the G-14 you have to choose *very* carefully the position, the foe, the fight and the timing of it ....

With our G-6 ---> K-4 109s dont try to turn with anything on the horyzontal more than 45-60deg. Go vertical and re-evaluate quickly the situation. Our mid-late 109s are out-turned and out-looped even by Bf110s

P.S.: Ouch Bruv! We replied in the same minute

[bozon]

Originally posted by bagrat
and the FLAPS, are they only meant to make a smoother landing?

Actually yes, as opposed to what most flight sims and the following bunch of guys that will flame me for this will make you believe. You will find some anaecdotal evidence for it being used on various planes but those stories are more of a pilot showing off how he pulled a suprise trick on his opponent - meaning it was highly irregular. The only semi exception that I know of, might be the P38.

Bozon

[EdXCal]

Actully I've read on many accounts of the P-51D using flaps, it was more then commen. At 300mph or lower it was almost needed since it had some of the most horrable stall charactoristics of any ww2 fighter next to maybe the F4u. Now the F4u is one that uses it's flaps HEAVLY in AH but I've never even read about them being used in a fight. In fact I have a friend who uses the F4u ONLY because with stall limiter on it will out turn a Zero at low speed with stall limiter off... Try it sometime, if you turn stall limiter on, use full flaps and full power, you will easly out turn anything else in the game. The only way I can beat him is in a Ki-84 using the vertical.

Edward

[bozon]

The P51 (RAF) story I know of specificly stated that the pilots talked about using the 1st position flaps for combat but were forbidded to use it by the CO. The pilot did use it to beat a 109G when caught in a prolonged, low, slow, circle fight. The fact that he boasts it, means it was exceptional.

So it was feasible and useful in some conditions. Modeling flaps to be used in extreme conditions is extremely hard with no good data. In terms of structural limitations the pilot notes list speeds of deployment, but those speeds are at 1G. Pulling 6G at 300 mph with flaps out is an entirely different condition. If flap use was that important and effective you'd see a lot more WWII planes designed to use them and find records of intructions of use in combat as standard practice. Engineers and pilots were not dumb and eager to survive.

Bozon

[gofaster]

I always fly the G-14 with gondolas.  Three reasons for this:

1) the MGs are worthless in mid-range (d400) snapshots, typical in AH.

2) the MGs are useless in bringing down bombers.

3) wing-mounted and converged at d400 means you have a little more room for error to the left and right of the pipper than you would with just nose-mounted guns.

AH should bring the G-10 back as a slightly lighter version of the G-14.

[Iceman24]

I know I'm gonna catch flak for this but IMHO all the LW are garbage in this game, the ballistics are horrible and the FM's are way off as well. I admire all the ppl that up them and fly em because there really really tough to fly and get kills in. I was just wondering why the so called best WWII fighter the FW190 is easily defeated by just about any allied AC in the game. Heck even Chuck Yeager was quoted as saying that in his opinion the 190 was superior to the pony in many ways, and that his pilots had to rely on superior skills and tactics when fighting them. I know its kinda hard to model planes exactly as they were in real life, but in WWII there were arguably 4 planes that were renowned for being the best fighters. 2 were allied and 2 were German, the P51 was arguably #1 with the FW190 coming in 2nd, then the Corsair and the ME109... In real life it may be hard to tell a difference as to which would be #1, but in our game I wouldn't put any of the LW planes in the top 10-15, it would definately be behind every US and british plane in the set, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, but I'm sure allot of other players would agree with me

[AutoPilot]

ME109...

You do know it's the Bf-109 right?

There are secrets to flying the LW planes,if you stick around long enough someone might share them with you.Just because you cannot fly LW doesn't mean the rest of us cannot.The FW-190's outclimb British planes any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


But this is just my Opinion.

[Iceman24]

yeah yeah I know its a BF109, but they were also called ME-109's as well (most US pilots called them all ME's, I'm not sure where the BF came from though, the ME just stood for Mescherschmitt or however you spell it... I have flown the 109's and 190's before, and have gotten training by some of the better sticks in them and I still think they suck, I've seen the "tricks" they have and I am not impressed at all... Some people have success in them, my guess is they are picking stupid dweebs that don't know how to pull a 30 degree turn... I'm not saying they sucked in real life, just in this game I don't believe they are modelled correctly, especially for 2 of the so called "best" fighters in WWII.. If they are modelled correctly then I see why germany lost the war lol

[AutoPilot]

The jets were labled ME i believe.

I'm not sure where the BF came from

 "Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (BFW / Bavarian Aircraft Company)".

[Krusty]

However, even on internal Messerschmitt documents they terms "bf" and "me" 109 are interchanged. There's even a document that has 2 separate fields and one says "me109" the other says "bf109".

Either is correct. Neither is wrong.

[Iceman24]

just because a plane can outclimb the other doen't make it better in any way, thats like saying the KI84 is better than the P47 just because it can outclimb it, what you have to do is look at the plane all around, take all its characteristics into play, top speed, acceleration, ballistics, turning abilitly, how it handles in a stall, weapon loadout, roll rate, use of flaps, etc... etc... while some of the german AC excell in 1 or 2 of those, they stink at the rest which IMO make it a bad AC, take an american plane like a 38 or pony and they may not excell at any, but they are good or descent at all of the qualities. Which I DON'T believe was the case in real life, the US pilots were saying that the German AC were awesome, but somehow in our game they can only climb ??? and if you slow em down they turn into bricks ???

[AutoPilot]

I would listen too Eric Hartmann before i listened to Chuck Yeager.1 has way more experience than the other.No one said you have to fly LW,you can leave that too me.

[Iceman24]

I'm not bashing the LW planes in real life, if I asked Eric Hartmann he would tell me that the 109G6 is probably the best because I believe thats what he mostly flew, but for an american P51 pilot to say that the FW190 was a much better plane has to say something about the FM in our game... If Eric Hartman had our neudered 109's he wouldn't have had many kills lol I just got done reading a book about eric hartman, and most of his kills came from shooting C47's in the begininng of the war, he was involved later on in allot of dogfights and if I remember correctly was shot down 3 times, but in his book he describes outturning and out maneuvering planes such as Lags and even pony's towards the end of the war... Also if US pilots hadn't been put on rotation then some of them would have had 100+ kills recorded, and its also being claimed that the German aces inflated there kills, i.e. recorded kills that wernt kills. I do not know if thats true or not, but it is being widely discussed