Author Topic: Acts of War on the US border  (Read 2232 times)

Offline Jackal1

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2006, 03:06:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by uberhun
 If you listen real hard you can hear a lone fiddle playing in the distance, and the smell of smoke in the air.
Uber.


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Offline lazs2

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2006, 09:05:09 AM »
OK cuelo... let's get this part out in the open then... you have a legal American wife of mexican decent who has family that is here illegaly...

I have a girlfriend in the same situation... my grand daughter is a 50/50..

Here is where we differ.  Illegal is illegal.  I went to a birthday party this weekend that was a VFW event (very few whites)  300 or so.   great time.  there were legals and, I suppose..... illegals there.

Now.. Every American of mexican decent I know thinks illegals are scum unless...

unless they are relatives.

It don't work that way and, deep down, they know it.   You should know it.  You don't get to pick and choose what illegals we will suffer..... neither do I nor do our wives/girlfriends.

You cross a countries border at night with gun totong criminals and murderes and theives and drug dealers and you take a chance on getting shot.... No, "don't shoot him he is my cousins brother in law by a former marriage" crap.   The rules are for everyone.

lazs

Offline Rolex

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2006, 07:40:32 PM »
And the rules of the human condition (i.e. those who are family and friends are humans, others are not) can't be ignored in trying to find a reasonable and effective way to control of the problem.

You'll find just as many people complaining about illegal immigrants, then winking about the fact that the foundation and drywall on their new house saved them a bundle of cash, since they used illegal immigrants.

Sorry if what I'm going to type has already been said by others, but here goes:

1. All immigration is a federal government issue and responsibility. All employment, drivers licensing, welfare, housing, healthcare, law enforcement/justice industry, etc. are state or local events and responsibility. The federal government is the culprit here by making states and localities bear the economic burden by not simply doing its job effectively. Move about half the Homeland Security people standing around doing nothing at airports to the southern border. There might be enough people to stand around doing nothing 6 feet apart along the entire Mexican border.

It's a national responsibility that affects some states more than others, yet the federal government has no incentive to stop it because of point 2.

2. You might want to cover your eyes and ignore this: cold-hearted economic studies show that illegal imigrants have a net positive effect on the economy. Yup. You add up all the social costs, subtract them from the economic gain, and the net effect is positive. Subsequent generations improve in economic status, which means more spending by them.

Illegal immigrants hold 19% of jobs in farming, 17% in cleaning and 11% to 12% in food preparation and construction. There is no evidence at all that legal residents holding those jobs have suffered reduced wages in those industries which are on the bottom rung of the income ladder.

They simply spend money to live like everyone else and consumption is king in the US economy, and construction is vital. Now... Only the federal government cares about the national economy. State and local governments don't give a hoot about the national economy. It makes you wonder if there is an intentional lack of action to stemming the tide?

3. Setting up machine gun nests and claymores along border sounds macho, but until the federal government allocates the available resources properly to enforce laws against hiring, there is little chance of seeing any solution. When the economy starts taking some lumps later on this year, the flow will slow a little, but not because of the feds doing anything about it.

Offline 2Slow

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2006, 11:03:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
It's been done...

 Arizona Border Watch

Careful.. the pics are not suitable for those with a weak stomach.


Very tough stuff.  Some where there are families who will never know what happened to their kin.  Mind you now, I am not getting lefty soft.  Darn shame some people feel driven to take such risk.
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Offline Suave

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2006, 07:59:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
And the rules of the human condition (i.e. those who are family and friends are humans, others are not) can't be ignored in trying to find a reasonable and effective way to control of the problem.

You'll find just as many people complaining about illegal immigrants, then winking about the fact that the foundation and drywall on their new house saved them a bundle of cash, since they used illegal immigrants.

Sorry if what I'm going to type has already been said by others, but here goes:

1. All immigration is a federal government issue and responsibility. All employment, drivers licensing, welfare, housing, healthcare, law enforcement/justice industry, etc. are state or local events and responsibility. The federal government is the culprit here by making states and localities bear the economic burden by not simply doing its job effectively. Move about half the Homeland Security people standing around doing nothing at airports to the southern border. There might be enough people to stand around doing nothing 6 feet apart along the entire Mexican border.

It's a national responsibility that affects some states more than others, yet the federal government has no incentive to stop it because of point 2.

2. You might want to cover your eyes and ignore this: cold-hearted economic studies show that illegal imigrants have a net positive effect on the economy. Yup. You add up all the social costs, subtract them from the economic gain, and the net effect is positive. Subsequent generations improve in economic status, which means more spending by them.

Illegal immigrants hold 19% of jobs in farming, 17% in cleaning and 11% to 12% in food preparation and construction. There is no evidence at all that legal residents holding those jobs have suffered reduced wages in those industries which are on the bottom rung of the income ladder.

They simply spend money to live like everyone else and consumption is king in the US economy, and construction is vital. Now... Only the federal government cares about the national economy. State and local governments don't give a hoot about the national economy. It makes you wonder if there is an intentional lack of action to stemming the tide?

3. Setting up machine gun nests and claymores along border sounds macho, but until the federal government allocates the available resources properly to enforce laws against hiring, there is little chance of seeing any solution. When the economy starts taking some lumps later on this year, the flow will slow a little, but not because of the feds doing anything about it.


Yeah but they're mexicans! :mad:

Offline Shamus

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2006, 08:46:17 AM »
The feds have stopped enforcing the immigration act of 86 the last couple of years, I think I read that no fines have been levied for two years.

You start hitting employers with big fines and the flow will slow.

shamus
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Offline lazs2

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2006, 08:48:25 AM »
I don't believe that the studies are accurate rolex.   I believe that what isn't factored in is...

Crime.. drugs and gangs and the cost of such a burden.

lack of progress...  When the first brassero programs shut down and minimum wage and conditions were impossed...  it took 25 mexicans on a tomato sorter... after that... the new sorters were laser and it took at most...3 mexicans..  Farm equipment will evolve to take out non skilled labor if it has incentive.

housing..... The study is old and by someone who doesn't understant construction.... by far... the largest cost these days in housing is the infrastrucure and fees (permits, sewer and water hook ups, streets curb gutter and sidewalk, lighting and landscaping, city improvement fees etc,)  and.... material.    The sub standard work done by illegal labor is simply tollerated since they are worked... well.... illegaly... they are not paid for overtime nor or they allowed the safety equipment or tools that normal workers would have....

We also accept a level of workmanship and finished product in our housing that would be laughed at 25 years ago... not to cut corners so much as... the actual craftsmanship does not exist.

In the trades I still know contractors... the illegals are unteachable for the most part.  If they are any good... they end up being paid the same as workers in the past were paid and they do about the same level and quantity of work.

I believe that your study only covers (if it is like the ones I have seen)  what work gets done and what money is put into the economy vs how much of a burden on the illegals put on the infrastructure in medical and such... the theory being that they pay into a lot of programs but never get anything back (SS, unemployment etc)

Even that can't last.... rolex... you might just want to bite your tongue and let the anti illegals rant as...  them ranting is what is keeping the illegals on the defensive and keeping them from demanding an even bigger piece of the social welfare pie.

The net effect tho is that we need to shut down any illegal activity for our own good.   It doesn't get better and it doesn't stay the same... it only get's worse

lazs

Offline FiLtH

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2006, 08:55:45 AM »
Its getting to a point with the technology we have that the product is going to outproduce the ability for people to buy it. The guy who used to run a machine to create the product is out of a job, and can no longer buy the product. Its like anti-Ford stuff. I would think in the long run it would be better to keep unskilled labor in a job, than to force them into other ways to make a living.

~AoM~

Offline lazs2

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2006, 09:11:06 AM »
in the case of illegals and farm work... it is better to create the machines to do the harvesting and decrease the price of food.  You also need to get rid of the illegals so that they don't drain your infrastructre.

In the case of construction... it is probly wiser to pay for highly skilled workers to turn out a good product.   The cost of one in ten roofs leaking is not bearable for instance... the cost to repair new houses is skyrocketing with whole walls being removed to repair water damage from leaks or... replace entire weather walls when stucco is done badly... none of the stucco for instance will last it's expected lifespan when done by unskilled labor.

It is a net loss for everyone.   You can shut down the border and import people on visas if you still need a pool of unskilled workers.

lazs

Offline Elfie

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Acts of War on the US border
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2006, 01:03:11 PM »
I used to have a nice paying job putting siding on new homes. Until the illegal Mexican crews showed up. American siding crews were paid $1.20 to $1.45 per sq foot of the house, the illegal Mexican crews were being paid .80 a foot. Even considering that the framing contractor has to hire a punch carpenter for $15 an hour to fix their screw ups, they still come out way ahead.

I used to make $25 an hour to either hang the siding on the home or to do the cutting. (I could, still can actually, cut an arch out of a 4 x 8 sheet of masonite with a circular saw and you cant tell that it wasnt made that way at the factory) Now I work for 8 - 10 dollars an hour, when I can find work. Don't tell me the illegals dont have an adverse affect on American workers cuz I just wont buy it.

I dont have anything against any one who wants to come to America LEGALLY. Any one who crosses our borders ILLEGALLY should be deported asap.
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