Kieren, I would happily accept a god or gods into my life. it'd make life more cheerful and give a sense of purpose.
I am, however, not able to deceive myself to such a large degree. I need evidence; my feelings have been wrong more than once. And it is true that *if* you want something to be true, that's a *very* good reasoning for questioning and examining it.
You say:
To any atheist still listening:
Religion=faith in the unseen and unknown- either you have it or you don't. Saying that it doesn't exist because it cannot be proven is naive. I can hit you in the hand with a hammer and it will hurt, and those around you that don't see the strike or feel the pain will still believe you are hurting. It's like saying there is no wind since you can't see it, that water doesn't exist since you can't taste it, or freedom doesn't exist because you can't hold it in your hand.
Well, pain response can be measured scientifically - set up an experiment, try out a falsifiable theory. Quite easy. Wind is basically gas in movement, which is a liquid. Also quite easy to support using scientific measurements. The same goes for water; all these things belong to the physical realm and are relatively easy to prove.
Then you have the theism theme; the logic goes as follows: Everything has to be created. A god or gods created the world for reasons unknown to us. These gods or gods however are ethereal and immaterial and have always existed or did not have to be created.
An argument commonly heard. Any student of logic would say that it is fatally flawed; the conclusion violates the premise: everything is created, except the gods. The problem is known as the problem of infinite regression and there is a lot of literature out there debunking it.
Now, this is purely a thought experiment and due to the nature of this god thingy, it is not falsifiable, something that skeptics say is increibly convenient. Even so, logically it does not hold water.
This is claim one. After this comes a variety of claims about the properties of god or gods, and the wishes of this. And an antrophomorphic view of the gods; ascribing human values or traits to something that quite clearly does not even closely resemble anything human.
If there is no supporting evidence and a violation of logic, I cannot get myself to believe fantastic claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I don't live wrong. I live a very just life, going out of my way to ensure I do not necessarily bother people. I make damned sure that I am not a hypocrite and force myself to admit my wrongdoings, if only to myself when me ego gets in the way.
Kieren, I do not discount your story, nor do I distrust your sincerity. I honestly believe you that you're sincere when you say you've had a personal religious encounter with god. It must have been a turning point in your life and a very warm sensation.
Unfortunately, personal experiences do not fall into the realm of reliable evidence to me. Too many people have seen Elvis boarding UFO's (extreme example, I know) for it to be considered a reliable source of information.
I am a non theist now, just as I was when I was a new born. Religiosity is an acquired state I feel. I'm an atheist because the alternative does not seem to make any sense at all. And I am a moral one - there is really no need for a god to exist for there to be morality.
If the logical flaws could be weeded out, we'd have a nice hypothesis. If this could be supported, we'd have a theory. At this point, I'd start to be very interested. Unfortunately, this far no one has come close to prove anything "supernatural".
There is a $1 000 000 reward; see
www.randi.org, for anyone that can under scientific scrutiny produce something supernatural. The scientists involved are not randi's personal favourits but experts on whatever area is being disputed.
I imagine life with a god must be quite satisfying - the sense of purpose, the sense of there being some kind of equilibrium between good and bad, hope when there is little, group belonging. Something bigger than you and me or life itself. It must be comforting. I'd like it to be true. Unfortunately, there is not a whole lot of evidence or logical support for most supernatural claims.
To each his own I say; as long as all parts are willing to acknowledge the weaknesses of their position. The weak atheist does not make claims that god does not exist - weak atheism, and I belong to that category, is simply a *lack* of faith in deities or a deity.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"We are the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldritch
