Author Topic: kill shooter (Read 4799 times)

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #105 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:02:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Bagrat, we're not all being sarcastic, and there's nothing you could explain to us anyway. The basic premise here is that KS is supposed to be bad. It isn't supposed to be fun or earn you perks; it's in place to deter a specific behavior. There's no better solution to accomplish what HTC wants here.

The only problem is that you're too ****ing stupid to read and comprehend what's been said about 9,000 times.

Don't shoot greens! How much ****ing plainer do you need it to be?

Dang your retarded. Did you comprehend anything that was said here?

bagrat · « **Reply #106 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:37:49 AM »

alright hopefuly this is the last time. My irriitation is not because of your oppinions, it is from how some of you choose to post it.

I posted this idea as in "hey i think this may be a good idea, ill share it to see what they think of it", And what I get is " Quit whinning because your so stupid u cant stop shooting at friendly planes"

picture this, your flying in your plane and you jump on an enemys six."still following", alright. You are 400 or so behind the enemy plane, there are no friendly planes between you and the plane. You begin to fire while trying to stay on this planes tail. your bullets are in flight heading towards there target."still with me" all of a sudden a friendly plane flys through the path of your rounds. You have already let go of the trigger, but your rounds are still traveling. The guy firing is punished as if he were intentionally firing at a friendly. (this is the scenario I had in mind)

You are all probably picturing this.
Im flying in a nik and see a plane being chased by 5 or more friendlies, and decide to also jump into the conga line. 1k away from the enemy plane (flying in a straight line) easily visible friendly, but decude to hold down the trigger until I run out of rounds killing myself from hitting friendly planes.

anyway i did not post those scenarios to further my argument but to possibly clear up the situation.

I still feel that alot of you "not all" but alot are very narrow minded.i dunno why I exchanged cutdowns with you guys, "supposebly mature adults" I called ya retarded an quickly was called retarded back. I

TY

Saxman · « **Reply #107 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:45:03 AM »

I think the argument they're trying to make is that the former case, where the shooter is screwed over by the stupidity of an over-eager kill-stealer, happens infrequently enough that it's not worth changing the KS model over (although I had it happen two days in a row).

Personally, I agree with you that there must be a better way to do it, but the problem is how to do it so the right guy is penalized.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #108 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:01:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bagrat
The guy firing is punished as if he were intentionally firing at a friendly. (this is the scenario I had in mind)

In this scenario, you are not being punished for intentionally firing at a friendly. You are being punished for your failure of situational awareness.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Westy · « **Reply #109 on:** February 10, 2006, 07:23:25 AM »

"I still feel that alot of you "not all" but alot are very narrow minded."

True. I'm guilty og it.

However I'd rather be narrow minded from experience than shallow minded from none.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #110 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:12:24 AM »

Todd , point being in this game folks warp back and forth hundreds of yards instantly, there are also heros like above who will intentionally dive through you to steal your target and inflict killshooter on you. Just as killshooter is intended to stop abuse in its current implementation it is open to those who wish to abuse it an to Internet realities.

Everyone agrees that it works to stop idiots from shooting you but some don't grasp the above which is why this keeps coming up.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #111 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:15:38 AM »

When you call me retarded because you don't understand, or can't/haven't communicated a point well, don't expect me to be pleasant. While I may or may not be narrow minded, I can only come up with about 4 or 5 situations where KS is possible (or at least where I've done it), and none where it's unavoidable.

As Hitech has said many times (perhaps you haven't seen all of the threads), the shooter is at all times responsible for knowing what's happening around him. The friendly who crosses through your bullet path isn't at fault (although he's arguably also displaying bad SA); you can't shoot him unless you pull the trigger. A lot of people have suggested a lot of ideas over the years, and none that I've seen or can imagine accomplish the same things. For it to work in the MA, it's got to deter fragging teammates, remove the extra bad guy from a fight, and/or not punish the innocent while punishing the party at fault.

I'd like to see film of "those above" abusing the KS setup. I think, and I won't bother putting this mildly, that you're lying in an attempt to bolster your position. While you cite "internet realities", you need to consider also that those same realities apply to everyone in the arena. Using the justification that KS needs to be changed or removed because you might possibly shoot someone because they're warping just doesn't float.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #112 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:26:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Todd , point being in this game folks warp back and forth hundreds of yards instantly, there are also heros like above who will intentionally dive through you to steal your target and inflict killshooter on you. Just as killshooter is intended to stop abuse in its current implementation it is open to those who wish to abuse it an to Internet realities.

[/b]

First, you overstate the level of warping in the game. Hell, I have never died via killshooter to someone who warped in front of me. Never. Not once in six years. Thus at some fundamental level you can do something that prevents or reduces killshooter deaths by this unfortunate turn of events. That might be connect related, but I've gone from a 28.8k modem to a 56k modem to a cable modem in all those years and never experienced warp-related killshooter deaths.

Second, the "hero" diving through trying to draw killshooter goes back to my original point: a situational awareness failure. Engaging in effective situational awareness means knowing the locations and intentions of enemies as well as friends. Dying to killshooter in this instance represents a lapse in situational awareness and falls only on the shoulders of the killshooter.

-- Todd/Leviathn

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #113 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:47:08 AM »

Todd.

I have experienced people warping back and forth several hundred yards while flying in formation and while persuing people. There are several films posted with planes warping around so its not just me.

Hubs,

Ya, I'm lying though you have no evidence to back up your position. Maybe you assume that since something is OK for you to do then others do so as well?

Did you not see Dipsticks post above? He tells you he does it but if I point it out I must be lying. Ya, your on top of it....

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #114 on:** February 10, 2006, 10:01:49 AM »

I don't dispute that planes warp around, rabbidrabbit. I'm disputing that this warping somehow makes killshooter inevitable or common. I've been through all kinds of connections throughout the years, and despite planes warping around, I have never once died to one via killshooter.

So again this goes back to situational awareness and making sure you're in close enough to an enemy that you have almost no threat of killshooting on someone.

-- Todd/Leviathn

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #115 on:** February 10, 2006, 10:11:35 AM »

I have had it happen but more often I have warped into bombers while making gunnery passes. I don't know how common it is but its one of the reasons this keeps coming up.

My proposal gives the benefit of the doubt to the KS'er while still effectively removing them from the fight. Ht doesn't like because he thinks someone must take the damage. In my experience I have let off the trigger if I suspected anyone was too close and have only died once in 4 years that I can think off. The other times I just took some hits or damage so the solution I proposed is actually more severe in my case. There is no perfect solution and never will be but as long as people die or take damage due to the inappropiate behavior of others you will see these threads.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #116 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:24:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
I have had it happen but more often I have warped into bombers while making gunnery passes. I don't know how common it is but its one of the reasons this keeps coming up.

-has nothing to do with the KS problem you're trying to describe.

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
My proposal gives the benefit of the doubt to the KS'er while still effectively removing them from the fight.

-taking ammo away from someone doesn't take them out of the fight. The lone con you're mobbing doesn't know who has ammo and who doesn't.

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
and have only died once in 4 years that I can think off.

-WTF are you crying about then?

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
There is no perfect solution and never will be but as long as people die or take damage due to the inappropiate behavior of others you will see these threads.

-again, the only inappropriate behavior is shooting green planes.

Regarding the film: you state that people dive through you (presumably you meant in front of you) to KS people and steal kills, and use dipstick's remark as proof positive. I say that without film, this claim is just like so many others posted on this board; that is to say, bull****. Considering you say you have only 1 death to KS in 4 years, I'd say it isn't much of a problem, despite your whining to the contrary. Your demand that I post film of something not happening a vast majority of the time is kind of pointless. I can post lots of film of people not KSing due to lag. That's not the issue. The issue is that you claim it's being abused, and have absolutely no way to back that statement up. So, post some film or cease and desist.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #117 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:54:06 PM »

-has nothing to do with the KS problem you're trying to describe.

this may come as a surprise but I wasn't talking to you.

-taking ammo away from someone doesn't take them out of the fight. The lone con you're mobbing doesn't know who has ammo and who doesn't.

If you read what was said about this above you would realise why you are wrong. Do I need to copy and paste it or can you reread the thread?

-WTF are you crying about then?

Where am I crying? Feel free to quote me.

-again, the only inappropriate behavior is shooting green planes.

Regarding the film: you state that people dive through you (presumably you meant in front of you) to KS people and steal kills, and use dipstick's remark as proof positive. I say that without film, this claim is just like so many others posted on this board; that is to say, bull****. Considering you say you have only 1 death to KS in 4 years, I'd say it isn't much of a problem, despite your whining to the contrary. Your demand that I post film of something not happening a vast majority of the time is kind of pointless. I can post lots of film of people not KSing due to lag. That's not the issue. The issue is that you claim it's being abused, and have absolutely no way to back that statement up. So, post some film or cease and desist.

When did I demand you post a film? Feel free to quote again...

Someone says they do it and I have seen it tried in the past. I don't have a film because I did not spend my life expecting to have to prove something to you. One does not need evidence of observable fact.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #118 on:** February 10, 2006, 10:04:36 PM »

Nor was I addressing you when you first chimed in and called me retarded. Point being?

If you can tie your inane ramblings together in such a way as to illustrate how lag, ramming bombers, Dipstick winding you up, your dislike of me, and incidents of no one KSing anyone else are manifestations of the greater issue of KS not working well, I'd greatly appreciate it.

If not, piss off.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #119 on:** February 10, 2006, 10:45:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bagrat

picture this, your flying in your plane and you jump on an enemys six."still following", alright. You are 400 or so behind the enemy plane, there are no friendly planes between you and the plane. You begin to fire while trying to stay on this planes tail. your bullets are in flight heading towards there target."still with me" all of a sudden a friendly plane flys through the path of your rounds. You have already let go of the trigger, but your rounds are still traveling. The guy firing is punished as if he were intentionally firing at a friendly. (this is the scenario I had in mind)

TY

The Bishop have a countrymen that is fast becoming noted for his KILL HUNGRY antics and zooming in front of friendly guns at a regular pace these days, causing multiple K/S incidents daily. Advise....find where he is flying...and avoid that area or you will soon find out how often K/S will strike you down.
I would have to say that nearly everyone of the repliers of this thread know exactly what you are talking about. They have been either the Perpetrator, the Punished or Both. Instead of keeping it civil, many insist on starting a heated argument by way of talking down to others. Get used to it, this IS the AH BBS BS community.
Their point is simple...we all have come to the place where we have adjusted for K/S. Its just another pain in the arse we have to get used to or leave the game.
Is it the supreme answer? IMO...NO...
Is it as good as it can get? IMO...NO...
is it going to change? Very unlikely.
It really is that simple.