Guns, the other side

[leonid]

There are approximately 192 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. - 65 million of which are handguns. Currently, an estimated 39% of households have a gun, while 24% have a handgun.


There were a total of 32,436 people killed by guns in the United States in 1997. Of these:

• 17,566 (54%) were gun suicides
• 12,942 (40%) were gun homicides
• 981 (3%) were unintentional or "accidental" shootings
• More than 11 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed with guns every day.
• In Washington State, during 1989-1998 there were 5,950 firearm deaths. 70% of these (4,125) were suicides committed with firearms.
• In 1997, firearm homicide was the leading cause of death for Black men ages 15-34, and for both Black men and women ages 15-24.
• The United States has the highest firearm death and suicide rates of all other industrialized countries.

The Risks Of Guns In the Home

• Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense.
• The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home.
• The presence of a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide fivefold.
• In 1994, 35% of the homes with children younger than 18 reported having at least one firearm; 43% of those had at least one unlocked firearm. 21% of firearm owners keep at least one gun loaded and unlocked in the home.
• When someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than 2% of home invasion crimes.

Kids and Guns

• In 1997, 2,580 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 1,262 committed suicide with guns, and 306 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 4,223 kids were killed by firearms.
• The rate of firearm death of children 0 to 14 years old is nearly 12 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.
• From 1984-1994, the firearm homicide death rate for 15-19 years olds increased 222%, while the non-firearm homicide death rate decreased 12.8%.
• In 1995, 1 in 12 (8.3%) high school students reported having carried a gun for fighting or self-defense at least once in the last 30 days.
• For Black teenagers 15-19, firearm homicides increased 158% from 1985 to 1993.

Firearms and Youth Suicide

• Between 1980 and 1994, the suicide rate for teenagers 15-19 increased by 29%; the increase in firearm-related suicides accounted for virtually all (96%) of the increase in the overall suicide rate.
• For children under 15 years of age, the suicide rate in the U.S. is two times higher than that of 25 other industrialized countries combined - largely because the firearm-related suicide rate in the U.S. is 11 times that of the other industrialized nations.
• At the national level, emergency room data verify that suicide attempts with firearms are almost always fatal: for every gun suicide there is less than one nonfatal injury. In Oregon alone, during 1988-1993 78.2% of suicide attempts with firearms were fatal. Only 0.4% of suicide attempts by drug overdose were fatal.
• Firearms have become the predominant method of suicide for Blacks aged 10-19, accounting for over 66% of suicides.
• In King County, Washington, more than 75% of the guns used by children in suicide attempts and unintentional shootings were stored in the home of the victim, a relative, or a friend.

Economic Costs of Gun Violence

• Direct medical costs for firearm injuries was $4 billion in 1997. Additional indirect costs, such as lost potential earnings, were estimated at $19 billion.
• In 1992, the estimated cost in pain, suffering, lost quality of life, and loss of productivity resulting from gunshot injury was $113 billion.
• In 1994, the mean direct medical cost per gunshot injury was approximately $17,000, much of which was paid by U.S. taxpayers.
• In 1991, the average cost to treat each child wounded by gunfire was enough to pay for a full year's tuition at many colleges.
• At least 80% of the economic costs of treating firearm injuries are paid for by taxpayer dollars.

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Hmm, you want me to post the dangers of swimming pools?  They caused 10 times the fatalities that handguns did...

[Fishu]

but man... a gun is addiction, it increases the lenght of your d***, you possibly can't rid such thing!

I'd like to see the day when USA finally has get rid of unnecessary handguns. (and we know that then USA would be alot safer also)

Ripsnort, but swimming pools less likely pops in front of you asking for your moneys... (with somewhat undenyable handgun assist)

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
I'd like to see the day when USA finally has get rid of unnecessary handguns. (and we know that then USA would be alot safer also)

You see, we have this Constitution thing. Pretty inconvenient to some...

[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:


Ripsnort, but swimming pools less likely pops in front of you asking for your moneys... (with somewhat undenyable handgun assist)

Right, but the gun, as in the swimming pool, can be abused, guns in the wrong hands kill, swimming pools with the wrong reckless owners kill...in other words, fix society before you fix the object.

[Dowding]

Ripsnort - that is a senseless comparison. Since when was a swimming pool designed to kill or maim?

[Ripsnort]

   

Originally posted by Dowding:
Ripsnort - that is a senseless comparison. Since when was a swimming pool designed to kill or maim?

Hmm, not sure what you would use a handgun for, but I use them for target practice, and hunting.  Target shooting is a fun sport, very competitive, I used to go shooting with 4 or 5 cops that very very proficient in hitting targets, and have the trophies to prove it on their mantles at home.

Its  the ignorant SOB's that make the responsible gun owner look bad.

Are you saying there are no responsible gun owners?  Well then I say there are no responsible  swimming pool owners, and we  should ban them all! (Tongue in cheek)

Keep in mind, if you intend to kill someone, you'll find a way, whether its a gun, a knife, a car, like I said, fix society first, it starts with the family, and family values.




[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Sidenote:
I'm all  for stricter gun controls , right AFTER they start enforcing the current ones out there, and making sentences longer for those that commit crimes with guns.  Did you know the average sentence served for Murder 1 in the USA is 7 years?  Like I said, fix society first.

[Dowding]

I was refering to the guns owned for self-defence and the accidents that arise from this.

Its an indisputable truth that the gun was designed to kill, regardless of what it's eventual use has become. The gun wasn't invented for target practise, but to kill more efficiently than a bow or the sword.

And as for hunting - wouldn't a rifle be a better choice than a semi-automatic pistol? What can you hunt effectively with a pistol, given its range?

In reply to the irresponsible pool/gun owners - sure these people exist. But how many kids can swim versus how many kids can safely handle a firearm? If you take the average kid and put him unsupervised with a gun or around a pool - which is the more likely to survive?

BTW - interesting info. Leonid.

[Ripsnort]

Pistol: Target shooting.
Rifle/Shotguns:For hunting.

Kids shouldn't be allowed to handle guns unsupervised.  I wasn't.  Had to have  Daddy around.  Kids shouldn't be  allowed to swim alone without supervision either.  My point is this:  When was the last time a gun jumped up off a desk and shot someone by itself?  It takes an act of a human being to either be stupid enough to leave one out for a kid to get ahold of , or someone purposely using that  weapon in an unlawful way.

You can drown someone in a swimming pool by holding his head down, so, better make them illegal, since humans cannot be trusted!

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Got this off of AGW off-topic forum, read the first URL, then read the last one.
 http://www.frenchu.com/tpg/drill.html
 http://www.frenchu.com/tpg/drill_last.html

[Maverick]

This type of post is nothing more than a blatant attempt to force an opinion or a lifestyle on other people. Leonid, no one FORCES you to have a gun. No one FORCES you to work in a job not of your choosing. No one Forces you to be a vegetarian (at lweast so far). No one FORCES you to drive a car not of your choosing. No one FORCES you to live in certain areas or to move from your home without compensation. These are freedoms you enjoy. Yet you feel the "right" ti tell others how to live their lives. Excuse me, but who died and made YOU God?

The tenets of freedonm involve the ability to hold opinions and even lifestyles that other people may not like. To force others to conform your CHOSEN lifestyle is not freedom, it's tyrany. Whether you use force or make a "law" to make your lifestyle mandatory it is still an abrogation of freedom. How many other mandatory changes will you mandate before YOU are happy? Are you going to ban SUV's? Are you going ban private aircraft? Are you going to ban ANY vehicle that is capable of speeds over 75 MPH? Are you going to mandate only electric vehicles? Take out the internet and eliminate browsers since pedophiles use it to look for kids and terrorist wanna be's use it to learn how to make explosive devices? (I can do more harm with diesel fuel and fertilizer than ANY firearm capable of being fired by a single person)Are all these things going to have to be eliminated? After all no one really NEEDS these things do they. Everyone of them has the potential to be misused and cause REAL harm.

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you decide to live YOUR life the way YOU want and leave others who do NOT misuse tools / vehicles / firearms / knives / swords to live the way THEY want.

I have lived all my life with firearms. I carried one for work on a daily basis for almost all of my adult life. I have never misused the weapon. Yet YOU feel that you have the right to tell ME what to do and how to live. I dealt with REAL people who meant to do harm to others with a great variety of weapons. Frankly they didn't worry me as much as you do. Most of them were interested in trying to steal your money or belongings. YOU are interested in stealing freedom because YOU think YOU know better how to tell others how to live THEIR lives.

Well, the first amendment to the constitution (actually known as the Bill of RIGHTS) guarantees you the right to have and speak an opinion. It does NOT grant you the right to force it on another. The second ammendment guarantees ME the right to have firearms and has not a single word about "hunting" weapons in it. Please note that governments are not in the rights "giving" business. Governments only take or reduce rights. Our (US) government is based on the ability to govern with the CONSENT of the governed.

 The current "BAD" buzzword in the anti gun clique is "sniper rifles". It's odd that hunting rifles are supposedly still acceptable but a "sniper rifle" is not. This is particularly evident in the "politically correct" speach used by anti gunners. It should be noted that the current sniper rifles used by the US armed forces are hunting rifles with a different scope on them (Winchester model 70's and Remington model 700's). I guess that means then, hunting rifles are by definition "sniper rifles" and are "bad".

If you do not want a firearm, don't have one. If you don't like SUV's, abortions, super fast cars, luxury cars, private airplanes etc. don't get one. Just don't think to tell others they can't have one as long as they have done nothing wrong.

Last note. In my home town of a half million permanent population there are on average 10,000 auto collisions. Most have some type of injury associated. There are more people killed on the roads in the city limits than are killed in homicides of all types. Almost all involve licensed drivers operating a deadly weapon that contains more force and power than ANY portable firearm in existance. Perhaps we should ban private tansportation. There is NO constitutional guarantee of a right to drive.

Mav

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
[BIts  the ignorant SOB's that make the responsible gun owner look bad.
[/B]

HEY!  Watch it!  

Frightening how some people could actually believe that some sort of eutopia would be achieve if only we'd get rid of hand guns and/or all guns.  If you outlaw guns, criminals will still be around, some still with guns, people will still kill themselves (especially if they have to live in Seattle), and there will still be accidents, except for some of the 981 in the stats above.

I currently own a Beretta 92FS handgun.  It sits in the case, in my closet, with no ammo in the house, waiting for the day that I learn how to use it properly.  Most likely in the next couple of months.


SOB

[leonid]

Rip,

Firearms were a military technological breakthrough.  Pools weren't.  Firearms were invented to, first and foremost, kill things, mostly people (military technological breakthrough).  Pools were meant to swim in for recreation.

People can die doing just about anything, including nothing at all.  That's not the point here.  The point is a pistol/rifle is by definition a weapon, in other words, meant to harm/kill people.  If you want to plink at things in the forest with a firearm, fine, but never delude yourself with what you have in your hands - a very efficient lethal weapon.  

[Ripsnort]

Wow Mav, this thread really woke you up! hehe.

BTW, if anyone should be against handguns, its me...I've had a .22 caliber rifle shot at me, a shot gun held towards me as  another fellow beat the crap out of me (they wouldn't have been successful without the gun)an Ought-6 pulled on me, and a .32 cal pistol shot at my face (I was  sober, he was drunk, I got lucky)...but yet, in all cases, the PERSON, not the firearm, was the reason for the violence.  I've confirmed that 3 out of  the 4 are now in prison years later, the lone exception was  the .22 cal.  rifle, which a neighbor kid raided his dads NON-LOCKED weapons closet and fired it randomly at me as I rode my bike past his house (he was angry at me).  He, ironically, is a lumberjack somewhere in Snohomish county, Washington.  The bullet hit the frame of my bike, good thing he had iron sites!

I'm all for modifying behaviorial patterns in humans.  Alot of people need help, and alot of folks will not  respond  to the tell tale signs of someone that needs professional help.

Edit: Forgot I had another guy 'flash' his gun at me in a restaurant where I bartended, I caught him off (from drinking) and he became angry.  I heard years later he died in a boating accident, drunk, he drowned.

Lenoid, point of my post is the people, not the guns, that MAKE guns dangerous,not the other way around. By arguing my "swimming pool" theory is  as rediculous as an anti-gun person arguing their point for  gun control.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-18-2000).]