Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$

[JAWS2003]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV


Bla bla

Thx for the best laugh i had today.

[hitech]

Jb42: I strongly dislike being called a lier.

[Bronk]

All i have to say on this 1 is ....




















IN



Bronk

[Creton]

It seems as if there's a continual claim of how lw rides are porked"they cant do this ,this cant do that".IMHO the 109g2 is the best of the 109's as far as I care.It will outrun some planes and outturn others,but what it does best of of all is go vertical.I dueled a spit16 against a g2 in the da the other evening.The spit16 was flown by danodano and while I lost these encounters ,they were none the less very difficult fights for the "uber" spit16. After we equalized our E states and were ina scissors,I was able to keep the nose up and float above him on the edge of the stall while he was trying to keep from stalling.Are speeds were around 75-150 at all times during these maneuvers,I had flaps out as did he ,but the spit16 couldnt continually keep nosing up as easily as the g2.I imagine that a more talented pilot than myself could easily have beaten the spit 16.I frequently find that they fall prey to ropes as the g2 will just outclimb it.I am most successfull against it if I can just get him to go vertcal and turn to the left.
As far as other aircraft are concerned I have some trouble aginst the spit8 and spit9 which I feel are superior to the spit16 in other area than roll rate.I landed 6 kills last evening in a spit9 and 4 of those were spit16's.

As far as the k4's concerned it's a great plane,I just cant hit anything with that tater gunI think it get squerlly if you get below 175mph and is near uncontrollable below 135mph.I have no trouble or take no issue in turn fighting other planes ina 109,it's just a matter of forcing them to continually go vertical.Some of thge reason it maybe so uncontrollable is the massive amount of torque created by the motor.

I think the 109f4 is a great little fighter and since the spitv got neutered  it is a great fight between these to a/c.The 109f4 doesnt seem to roll as well but it turns quickly with throttle management.


I am by no means competite in the 109's but I dont see how they're all that bad as some make them out to be.I still prefer to kill "uber" aircraft with a supposedly undermodelled pos plane.And one thing about it that I've noticed is that when people die to a 109 they ussually dont complain because they know they just got sucker punched.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by JB42
...snip....

again I'm not sure if its a conspiracy.................bu t it sure smells like one

and the uber Bf-110? Havent heard you argue to tone it down some....

[RedTop]

I have a few questions tho for you guys...and this isn't anything other than I no thing about the preformance data on ANY WW2 aircraft. I only go by what I have seen or read here and there. So my "expertise" is 0 percent.

So here we go...

Were fights in WW2 generally fought at low alt. ?

Are the flight charactaristics that some of you think are porked , because the planes are not flown as they were in WW2 ?

Wasn't the 109's and 190's real shining point and where they WERE rulers of the sky up around 15 -25k ?

What about the U.S. planes do you feel is over moddled ?

Wasn't the P51 , P47 high alt fighters ?

When is the last time any of you actually had a fight that remained ABOVE 5 k?

I ask this because I generally see fight after fight after fight on the deck. Yanking and banking like there's no tomorrow. I do it as well. When is the last time there was a big furball at 20k?

If HT tells me , as a customer , that the flight models are correct , and I do as some of you have done and run around testing this and that and find that it is VERY close to what the data I downloaded from some expert site says it is , or what I read in some Jg26 book , then why wouldn't I let the topic go?


When is the last time ANYONE here actually FLEW a 190A5 or 109G2 , Spit Vb , P51D , LA7 , B-17 , Spit 16 or 8. I would think , that until that happens , that all you can go by is what some test pilot said in 1943 about what the plane could and couldn't do. I would also submit that each test pilot may come close to the other on a particular plane , but still would vary slightly.

Maybe , and thats a big maybe , when programming the deployment speed for the flaps in a 109 a key got fat fingered and instead of 150 it came out to be 170. I have no idea.

I just don't seem to think tho , that HT would ever , as the owner of HiTech Creations , that he would do anything of the sort as to model something because of money. Just to hard for me to come to that conclusion at all.

Just some questions folks...no digs here...just wondering.

[JAWS2003]

Willing or not but the game is going in one clear direction:
 
  -Ta-152 ......... . . . .  I won't even talk about it.
  -G-10 is out.
  -G14 too slow
  -K-4 and  have no gun pods option  even that there are units that received them with them on from the factory.  
  -G-6 can't take Mk-108 ( Modeled strictly for early 1943) but P-51 can fly with 2x1000lb and 6x5 inch rockets in the same time. I did not find anything about P-51 carrying both in the same time during WW2.
   Visibility:
  -New 109's got nice thick bars
  -New spitfires look like they have wires instead of cockpit bars.
  -The p-51B got Malcolm Hood instead the cage canopy that was known to offer a very poor visibility to the rear. I know, was modeled so could be also used to simulate  RAF Mustangs.  But I doubt the Malcolm Hood -Mustang is going to be used only from April 1944 when it actually started to be used. Is going to be used from December 1943 or latest Jan 1944, giving a clear unfair visibility advantage, that back then,  P-51 pilots did not have.
 -Flaps unavailable for axis planes. You can lower gear before you can drop flaps, kinda kills their purpose.
 -Bf-109 and FW-190 have a bad instability close to the stall speed, clearly visible in Kwessa's turn tests. That alone makes combat maneuvers very hard at normal low and mid altitude and almost impossible at high altitude.
-Fw-190A8 can't perform what it did in WW2. It can't intercept bombers at high altitude. Above 25k the plane can't catch a Lancaster not even talking about B-17's or B26's.


 This are probably not intentional but this is what you see in the game. This is how I see the game evolve.

 I like challenges, i like to fly the under dog, but I'm not into masochism. At some point I get tired and move on.
 AH is a great game but things like this get you tired.

[Dlord]

It's a conspiracy I tell you:noid

[wetrat]

It's more than a "fat finger" keeping the 109 flaps from being fixed. If it came out that the flaps on the mustang were wrong, they'd be fixed TONIGHT. 109 flaps have been a known problem for a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

[JB42]

My intent was not to imply you're a LIAR Dale. I will concur that it's not about money or country of origin. It just seems that certain planes either go unfixed for certain reasons or are immediatly fixed for other reasons. I guess I just to understand that with all the information that has been posted on many different forums, why some planes are not brought up or down to the provided specs.

It's not just LW, there have been many posts by Mitsu on some of the FMs of many Japanese planes. There has even been some compelling data on the undermodelling of the P40s. So that throws the good guys against the bad guys theory. Heck, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the FM change for the La7 resulting in making it a little less uber?

Perciption is a very subjective opinion. In my perspective, my opinion is that certain planes seem a little more catered too. The case maybe completely false, but it still is what I perceive it to be.

[Krusty]

Small sideways reply to JB:

The Ki84 actually got some timely tweaks to its engine when it first came out, and then new info came to light.

The P40 data was wishful thinking at best and defies all logic when compared to planes that are LIGHTER and have MORE POWER than it, yet somehow it's supposed to outclimb them all? Not likely. Again, wishful thinking.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by wetrat
The flaps being wrong on the allied birds makes them fly better.

The only thing wrong with the flaps on allied planes is the hand holding, coddling feature of the auto-retracting flaps.  



ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Krusty


No conspiracy. No this side vs that side bs. Just the 109s suck, and have for a long time.  

Somehow I think the blame lies squarely on the pilot instead of the 109 for being sucky...



ack-ack

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by JB42


D) Many historical documents point out the dominence of the A5, it out climbs, out accelerates, out dives and more agile than anything allied pre-1942 (giving up only continual turning radius to most allied planes). Tell me that's modelled accuratly.

Help me out here.  Which 1942 or before birds outperform the A5 in AH?  Spit IX should be better in some aspects and worse in others but about even overall, and that's late 42.  



Someone pointed out where the AH airwar is fought.  It's a low alt tac airwar.  Hmmmm.

Since we keep talking about historical documents.  Here's the combat narrative of an early model 38J-10 pilot.  No dive flaps, no power assisted controls.  The 370th transitioned to 38s in England in May 44 and this is July so this guy isn't an expert in the 38 by any means, just a competent pilot.

So based on his experience down low against a 109 that bounced him.  Is it the 38 being over modeled, the 109 being under modeled or maybe the 109 pilot being undermodeled compared to the Allied driver at the time?  Conpiracy perhaps?

Note the last part of the narrative about the 38J and what it was carrying through the fight.

Lt. Royal Madden  370th FG July 31, 1944

"Approximately 15 Me 109s came down on Blue Flight and we broke left.  I then made a vertical right turn.  Blue Four was ahead and slightly above me.  I glanced behind me and saw four Me 109s closing on my tail fast and within range so I broke left and down in a Split S.  I used flaps to get out and pulled up and to the left.  I then noticed a single Me 109 on my tail and hit the deck in a sharp spiral.

We seemed to be the only two planes around so we proceeded to mix it up in a good old-fashioned dogfight at about 1000 feet.  This boy was good and he had me plenty worried  as he sat on my tail for about five minutes, but I managed to keep him from getting any deflection.  I was using maneuvering flaps often and finally got inside of him.  I gave him a short burst at 60 degrees, but saw I was slightly short so I took about 2 radii lead at about 150 yards and gave him a good long burst.  There were strikes on the cockpit and all over the ship and the canopy came off.  He rolled over on his back and seemed out of control so I closed in and was about to give him a burst at 0 deflection when he bailed out at 800 feet.

Having lost the squadron I hit the deck for home.  Upon landing I learned that my two 500 pound bombs had not released when I had tried to jettison them upon being jumped.  As a result I carried them throughout the fight.”


How'd that happen?  Conspiracy back then too?  

Geez you guys work too hard at this neutered LW stuff

[culero]

Originally posted by Guppy35
snip
Geez you guys work too hard at this neutered LW stuff

Its the leather underwear

culero