Author Topic: "I'm very, very sorry ... "  (Read 2383 times)

Offline kreighund

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2001, 01:25:00 PM »
Saudi has probally got it right in this case..You take a life you lose your head!!!

Offline av8or

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2001, 02:40:00 PM »
I still haven't figured out what is going through these kids heads when stuff like this happens.All i can go off of is what i knew as a youngster and at around 8 i had my own gun but only when my parents knew for a fact that i knew what i pointed that gun at and pulled the trigger wasn't coming back to life and was irreversable.I can only assume that they were not taught that but i think at 13 you have been to school long enough and have been around long enough to know what guns do by reading about the wars through out the world and by how many people lost there lives and they were do by using guns knives etc.I am not saying what he did was right or that he didn't know ,his lawers are just doing their jobs i think he knew exactly what he was doing and needs to do his time however with the prison system the way it is he will probably be released at 18 and be back in at around 19.this is just my opinion and everyone has one this is just mine.  AV8  :)

Offline av8or

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »
I still haven't figured out what is going through these kids heads when stuff like this happens.All i can go off of is what i knew as a youngster and at around 8 i had my own gun but only when my parents knew for a fact that i knew what i pointed that gun at and pulled the trigger wasn't coming back to life and was irreversable.I can only assume that they were not taught that but i think at 13 you have been to school long enough and have been around long enough to know what guns do by reading about the wars through out the world and by how many people lost there lives and they were do by using guns knives etc.I am not saying what he did was right or that he didn't know ,his lawers are just doing their jobs i think he knew exactly what he was doing and needs to do his time however with the prison system the way it is he will probably be released at 18 and be back in at around 19.this is just my opinion and everyone has one this is just mine.  AV8  :)  PS the reason he is sorry is probably he knows he is going to prison for awhile he is probably old enough to know what prison is and what gets you there,if he didn't before he does now  :D

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2001, 02:51:00 PM »
Also this is a poor black kid. If he were rich and white would he be in the same predicament?
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In my mind anyone who murders should be treated with the same justice.  Unfortunately it does not work like that.

At the very least this young man should never be allowed to re-enter the society I live in.

Yeaher
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2001, 02:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Betown:
I actually agree with you totally up to a point eagler, I think that this little bastard should be locked away for a good many years! What he did was horrific and should be punished by the harshest way possible but I am completely against capital punishment. I have not always been against it. I used to think that Capital punishment was a good deterrent and it helped in making people safer. But in truth (imo) it's not. People will still get murdered if you have people being executed or not. So why can't we help people for the greater good of society?

Its called consequences, Betown.  He killed, he should be killed.  I am of the eye-for-an-eye approach.  What he did is inexcusable.  I used to not think too much about the death penalty until I saw that they get cozy prison terms, with cable TV, gym, 3 square meals a day and better health coverage than any of the HMOs I've had to date.  His kind of acts prove he is not of value to society and if anything, will be a drain.  Hear me again, what he did was not an "accident".

 
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And No guys, I am sorry but you can't tell me that if  you are old enough to know how to fire a firearm then you are old enough to be executed for it because that isn't right. If someone leaves a loaded gun lying around then unless the kid doesn't watch TV he will know how to use it.

Its not like this kind found it in the hall, you know.  He with through the effort to grab it, take it to school and commit the crime.  So, Betown, at what point do you Brits think responsiblity kicks in?  You seem to favor the criminal over the victim.
 
 
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I agree that we need to punish and reform, but two wrongs don't make a right. By killing someone else in COLD BLOOD as retaliation for what they did makes us (imo) as bad as the person who comitia the crime.

So you want no truth and consequences, we should "rehabilitate" this piece of trash so he can make good with the rest of his life.  Hmmm, sorry, I respectfully disagree.  He's a murderer and I'm just sad that our justice system doesn't have the balls to execute a killer, whether it be 14 or however old that youth was that killed the little boys out there in the UK.  Kids like that are evil and if I ever had my draconian ways, they'd be executed for all to see on Pay Per View.  Finally, the taxpayers could see their tax dollars at work, ridding society of those that try to harm it.  Maybe its a "Brave New World" kinda thinking, but I am certainly tired of the wishy-washy emotion stories being played out daily that favors the suspects over the victims.

Flame away   :)

Offline Nashwan

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2001, 03:30:00 PM »
Could the people calling for this kid to be executed say if they favour any age limit for the death penalty, and if yes what that limit is?
Are you in favour of executing the 6 year old who killed his class mate? This was clearly a premeditated act, not an accident. Would you execute him?

Offline Dowding

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2001, 06:03:00 PM »
Of course they would Nashwan - because capital punishment is about vengeance.

I'm confused, Toad. The US operates capital punishment for capital crimes. Yet if zero recidivism worked, surely there would be no capital crime?

Or perhaps you simply aren't thorough enough? Should any killing be met with a capital sentence? Should manslaughter be met with capital punishment? The drunk driver who wipes out a whole family - should he be killed? Because, according to your theory no-one would ever drink-drive again, because of the consequences.

Where is the evidence of this perfect deterrent that leads to this 'zero recidivism' situation?

I look at your murder and rape crime rates and I can't see how it works...
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline SOB

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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2001, 07:02:00 PM »
Do you have an example of a criminal who was executed and then committed another crime?

No deterrent can be 100% effective to would-be criminals.  Also, you can't realistically take any statistics from today and try to equate them to the death penalty not being an effective deterrent.  It's simply to rare of an occurance to be a factor.

Anyhow, you already live in the eutopia that is the United Kingdom.  Why would you care to muck with this vengeful, backwards-arsed country that is the United States?  We ain't worth your trouble.


SOB
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Offline kreighund

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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »
Remember, the death penalty is not a deterrent, its a punishment..if it deters then that's gravy on the goose.

Offline MrBill

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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2001, 09:51:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kreighund:
Remember, the death penalty is not a deterrent, its a punishment..if it deters then that's gravy on the goose.

Of all the volume of words and arguments written on the death penalty on this board ... the above statement is the clearest and most concise argument I have seen ... for both sides of the issue.

<S> kreighund
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Offline Nashwan

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2001, 09:55:00 PM »
I'm still waiting for someone to say what age limit on executions they would favour.
Aren't any of you prepared to face up to a difficult question like that?

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2001, 10:45:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kreighund:
Remember, the death penalty is not a deterrent, its a punishment..if it deters then that's gravy on the goose.

 
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Offline SOB

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2001, 02:53:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan:
I'm still waiting for someone to say what age limit on executions they would favour.
Aren't any of you prepared to face up to a difficult question like that?

What does age have to do with it?  This is about the ability to truely comprehend what happens when you shoot someone in the face with a gun.  At 13 I believe just about any normal person has this comprehension.  Below that I'd bet quite a few do as well, how about letting a psychologist figure it out?

In any case, I'm still for the hooker and booze before the execution.  That was a good idea.


SOB
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Offline Toad

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »
Dowding,

Better look up recidivism in a dictionary. Here, I'll do it for you.

"a tendency to relapse into a previous condition or mode of behavior; especially : relapse into criminal behavior"

Ever seen the SAME PERSON commit a capital crime after being executed?
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Offline Dowding

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"I'm very, very sorry ... "
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2001, 05:55:00 AM »
I believe the phrase that springs to mind is...

...doh!  :D

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.