Author Topic: A question about guns...  (Read 2125 times)

Offline Dago

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A question about guns...
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2006, 05:18:44 PM »
Just dont go anywhere you need a concealed weapon and your problem is solved.   :D

While this issue of best weapon etc, has been argued a million times, the one good point is this, the only good handgun is the one you can shoot accurately in a hurry.  The real killing power of a weapon is all about bullet placement.

Revolvers can jam, and they do.  They are slower to reload.  Virtually non-existant in any military force today, and they are people who make a living with firearms.  Colt has stopped making them altogether, other manufacturers will follow.

Do those sound like selling points?  Not really.

Autos have gained in acceptance and are practially the only weapon used by both military and police depts today.  They dont make a choice of weapons lightly.  The overwhelming majority of competitive pistol shooters also use semi-auto pistols exclusively.

They hold more ammo, reload quicker, and the semi-auto action help absorb recoil.  The average shooter can fire them faster if needed.  

Do those sound more like selling points?  Yep.

Large bore calibers are good for stopping power, cross sectional density is as important as velocity.  The major pistol makers all make good weapons.  Basically, make your choice on what appeals to you, and you might use as a reference those comments from shooters who really like thier weapons.

More important than anything else is whenever you make your choice and buy your pistol, practice until you are comfortable and confident in it.

good luck,

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Masherbrum

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A question about guns...
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2006, 10:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
You said the purpose is defense, it that for concealed carry on a regular basis or more for home-defense?

The 125gr .357mag round is far above any other cartridge for it's record of "one shot stops". There is also nothing more simple, fail-proof, and relaible than a revolver. For concealed carry duty I use a SP101, it carries five shots of full-power .357s in about the smalles form-factor available. The problem with a .357 revolver that is small enough for easy concealment in all weather is that it will not be suitable as a pleasure weapon, that little sucker kicks like a mule. I use .38+P for practise to mitigate that "feature".
ETA: Goob, you are right in your assesment of the power delivery capacity of the .44mag versus the .357mag, but studies show that for thin skinned game it is actually OVER penetrative, simple truth is most of the energy gets delivered downrange of the target rather than into it. In fact the same is true for the .45ACP since the .38SW has a better one shot stop record than the .45ACP, there seems to be something about the 125gr .357 that causes an explosive effect to the bullet while the big 230gr bullets just blow right on through.


Actually the .357 will go through about 18-19 inches of ballistic gelatin, while the .45 will go about 10-12".  You switched the two.   That .357 round is travelling at around 1250-1300fps, as opposed to 850-950fps with a 230gr.  The .45 round is 50% larger than a .38 round.   The .45 round will bulldoze more tissue than the .38 will.   This is the good thing about the 45 round.  

The problem with the "hot rounds" (45 EXCLUDED), is you need to be more conscious of what is BEHIND the perp.
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Offline lazs2

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A question about guns...
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2006, 08:32:39 AM »
dago... smith is making more revolvers than ever.   so is taurus and ruger.

being high capacity and fast to reload may or may not be an advantage.   30 years ago the average gunfight lasted 1.7 rounds...  now it is up to about 7-9 with a lot of innocents being hit.    

an advantage would be the person with the revfolver or auto that knew how to use it vs the guy with either who didn't know how to use it.

Anyone who has shot handguns for many years has learned that the revolver will fire and the auto may or may not.    No self defense course I know of doesn't teach clearing a jam from autos... no course ever finishes without a few of the guys having jams with their autos.

Nothing wrong with that.... autos are great for people who don't want to or can't learn a revolver.

for all around use and for reloading and if you could only have one handgun... the wheelgun is still king.

oh.... a shrouded j frame .357 can be fired 5 times in a row from inside your pocket.... try that with an auto.... and how bout them 300 yard steel rams eh?  Oh.... and dago...

don't forget to police that brass ya hear?

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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A question about guns...
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2006, 09:04:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Sounds like he should move to england and be a good little subject. :D


I don`t think Timmy has realized that Lassie has came home and is peeing on his shoes.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Hangtime

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A question about guns...
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2006, 09:21:31 AM »
actually, lassie pushed timmy into the well and then emigrated to australia.
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Offline ChopSaw

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A question about guns...
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2006, 11:37:10 AM »
I like my Sig/Sauer 9 mm quite a lot.  After thousands of rounds it has never jammed on me.  If I were to get a .45, it would more than likely be a P220.  In addition to the overall high quality I like the way the safety mechanism works.  Just pick it up and start shooting.  No safety lever to flick.  Just like a revolver in that respect.

I've tried the Glock and while a cut above most, I didn't care for it.  Both 9 mm and .45 have jammed on me a couple of times.  And before anyone says something, yes, I was shooting correctly with my wrist locked and braced.  A fact which caused the observing factory representative some embarrassment.  It was a simple failure to come to battery each time.  No stove pipes or anything like that.  A simple slap on the side of the gun clicked it in place.  My rule on these matters is simple.  Every time I pull the trigger the gun must fire as long as there is ammunition in the gun.  If it fails once and maintenance is not at fault, the gun is useless to me.

The H&K cannot be argued with for quality and the hexagonal barrel is interesting.  My personal taste didn't accommodate the grip safety mechanism.

The .45 has a well deserved reputation for stopping power and the .44 magnum has a ton of it.  I've never cared for the .357 magnum despite its power.  My feeling has always been it is an over penetrating round more prone to go through a body without dumping its energy.  The .45 and .44 magnum have more of a tendency to stop within the body, dumping all or most of their energy into damage.  I look at the .357 as more of a slender blade being thrust and the other two as a cross between an axe and a sledge hammer in terms of stopping power.

If I were in your situation, I'd go for a S&W .44 magnum revolver.  It is good quality and one of the most accurate guns I've ever fired.  There's also the inherent reliability of a revolver.  Police officers have told me most gun fights are over after 3 rounds have been fired and if you hit with a .44, it's game over right there.

Offline Timofei

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A question about guns...
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2006, 01:29:53 PM »
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Originally posted by Morpheus
The thing is guys, we know we're right.


Yep, buy a gun. Feel safer now ?. No ?
Go and buy one more. Because you must be right.:rolleyes:
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Offline lasersailor184

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A question about guns...
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2006, 01:43:51 PM »
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Revolvers can jam, and they do. They are slower to reload. Virtually non-existant in any military force today, and they are people who make a living with firearms. Colt has stopped making them altogether, other manufacturers will follow.


Funny, I've never had a revolver jam on me.  I've never seen a revolver jam.  I've never ever heard from any of my gun owning friends that they had a revolver jam on them, or seen one jam.
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Offline GtoRA2

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A question about guns...
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2006, 02:02:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Timofei
Timmmaaaaaagh ?. timah! ?
Tim TiMAAAGHGH  Timmmmaaaaaaahhhh!.:rolleyes:





You really are like TIMMAAAAGH from south park, just not as smart or funny.

Offline ChopSaw

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A question about guns...
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2006, 02:05:47 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Funny, I've never had a revolver jam on me.  I've never seen a revolver jam.  I've never ever heard from any of my gun owning friends that they had a revolver jam on them, or seen one jam.

Revolvers can and do jam.  The causes are wear and/or poor maintenance.  Usually the wear situation appears in brands of questionable quality.  When maintenance is the issue, it's always very poor maintenance.  Leave the gun out in the rain to rust or don't clean the mud off it type of poor maintenance.  Pistols are far more susceptible to these phenomena.  Revolvers overall are extremely reliable.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2006, 02:12:40 PM »
I have had a ruger singlesix Jam on me with some HOT homeloaded .357, the cases backed out of the cylinder just a little making it so it could not rotate.


Never had factory ammo do this.

Offline lazs2

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A question about guns...
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2006, 02:21:45 PM »
jams... Ok, let's leave out worn out or rusted guns or ones that you just pulled out of a barrel of quicksand and fast setting resin..

let's leave out hot handloads that would blow an autoshuckers slide 3" into your forehead.... and.... lets leave out such oddities as the smith 22 jet revolver or 30 carbine single action...

what is left is... both revolvers and autos no matter how good a quality... are at the mercy of the ammo they are loaded up with...  in an auto... that means a dud and the old rack and tap drill... in a revolver than means... pull the trigger again.

lazs

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2006, 02:28:16 PM »
Worn and rusted guns?  My most trusted revolver is one that was literally covered in rust and pitting.  After cleaning it, I've never had a jam, misfire, whathaveyou.  The gun itself was at least 50 years old, but had been left to rust in a briefcase for 35.
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Offline wrag

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A question about guns...
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2006, 02:47:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Timofei
Yep, buy a gun. Feel safer now ?. No ?
Go and buy one more. Because you must be right.:rolleyes:


Yes I have bought gunS.  Because of the types of people i've seen and known during my life, YES I feel safer.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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A question about guns...
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2006, 02:57:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Funny, I've never had a revolver jam on me.  I've never seen a revolver jam.  I've never ever heard from any of my gun owning friends that they had a revolver jam on them, or seen one jam.


Hmmm.......

Hot reload, very hot!  Primer backed out.  Some reloaders when they 1st start reloading don't always seat the primer properly and this can and does result in a jam.

This can also occur with autos.  A primer improperly seated can create problems.

A bullet improperly seated/crimped can also result in a jam.  Some bullets require a tapper type crimp.  Others require a rolled type crimp.

The bullet can slide forward or backward and jam either an auto or a revolver.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.