Author Topic: A question about guns... (Read 2141 times)

Edbert · « **Reply #90 on:** March 20, 2006, 03:51:58 PM »

GTO...I've loaded seome really hot .357s, but there isn't much room in the case for getting too crazy, even with hot powders. I sorta settle on Hogdgon H110 which is usually recommended for the bigger magnums for my "+P@.357s". You didn't mix your rifle powders up with pistol loads now did ya? Just kidding.

Karaya...I have seen the .357 not even exit a whitetail when it hit a rib on entrance. The 125gr bullet penetrates much less than the more normal 158gr does (I'm assuming the 158gr caused the 18-19 inch cavity you mentioned?), it is pretty much a frangible if it hits anything like bone.

Cthen · « **Reply #91 on:** March 20, 2006, 04:33:58 PM »

For Tim.....

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens

Try doing a google search on Nazi Gun Control

it makes for some interesting reading

I'll stick with the Founding Fathers and keep my guns thank you

Dago · « **Reply #92 on:** March 20, 2006, 04:41:50 PM »

From a Taurus revolver manual:

Quote

While shooting any revolver, a cartridge case may
occasionally become jammed against the breech face, impairing the ability of
the cylinder to turn freely. Clear the jam as follows, WHILE KEEPING THE
MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION AND THE FINGERS WELL
CLEAR OF THE TRIGGER: push the cylinder release and attempt to open
the cylinder. If the cylinder swings open, eject all cartridges and spent cases.
Inspect the cartridges and the breech before resuming shooting. Inspect the
cylinder and breech face before resuming shooting.

Revolvers are most complex, and on average have twice the number of parts as an auto. They do jam, and are not any easier to clear than an auto.

SMIDSY · « **Reply #93 on:** March 20, 2006, 04:54:29 PM »

i have another gun question: why arent all assault rifles in the bullpup configuration?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #94 on:** March 20, 2006, 05:08:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert
Karaya...I have seen the .357 not even exit a whitetail when it hit a rib on entrance. The 125gr bullet penetrates much less than the more normal 158gr does (I'm assuming the 158gr caused the 18-19 inch cavity you mentioned?), it is pretty much a frangible if it hits anything like bone.

My bad. I got the two crossed, without Googling, was going on memory.

Karaya

Masherbrum · « **Reply #95 on:** March 20, 2006, 05:12:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
an advantage would be the person with the revfolver or auto that knew how to use it vs the guy with either who didn't know how to use it.

Anyone who has shot handguns for many years has learned that the revolver will fire and the auto may or may not. No self defense course I know of doesn't teach clearing a jam from autos... no course ever finishes without a few of the guys having jams with their autos.

lazs

For qualifications when I worked for Michigan National Bank. A fellow guard had a .357 (shooting .38). The revolver failed to fire often. My .38 never had an issue and I went back to it after we "changed to Berettas".

I'm just saying I have seen Revolers NOT FIRE after 10+ pulls of the trigger. The sear needed adjusting.

Karaya

Masherbrum · « **Reply #96 on:** March 20, 2006, 05:12:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Timofei
Yep, buy a gun. Feel safer now ?. No ?
Go and buy one more. Because you must be right.

Thing is, we can Pistol Whip you, but you can't.

Karaya

ChopSaw · « **Reply #97 on:** March 20, 2006, 06:30:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Worn and rusted guns? My most trusted revolver is one that was literally covered in rust and pitting. After cleaning it, I've never had a jam, misfire, whathaveyou. The gun itself was at least 50 years old, but had been left to rust in a briefcase for 35.

Yes, but you did clean it, didn't you? Scraped off the rust, oiled it up and got it in shooting condition. That represents maintenance and therefore does not fall within the parameters of the examples I offered. Revolvers are extremely reliable.

lazs2 · « **Reply #98 on:** March 21, 2006, 08:45:05 AM »

ok... a worn sear will not cause a gun to not fire.... the sear is the same on an auto or a revolver... a worn sear on an auto will probly cause the gun to double (or more) fire... on a revolver... it may make the gun have a very light trigger relaease or even keep it from staying fully cocked.

You may have been talking about a worn or broken fireing pin... Autos of course are far more prone to this than revolvers but it does happen and no gun with a broken fireing pin can be "cleared".... it is out of action.

dago... have you read the manual for semi autos? every single one of em talks of jams.. all kinda jams. some jams that autos get can put the gun out of action till you get it to a gunsmith.

Revolvers are much more reliable. for the simple reason that... a bad round is the cause for a firearm to not fire 99% of the time...with a wheelgun you just go on to the next.... a burst case (bad case) will make you go on to the next one (another pull of the trigger) in a revolver but you may not be able to get the slide back or the stuck case out in an auto.

If you are going to live in a trench in the mud and no nothing about firearms then ssome autos are better than the majority of revolvers.

sorry you don't like revolvers but I think you are just limiting yourself for no good reason. Revolvers do some things even today that are impossible for semi autos to do.

and.... police up that brass now... ya hear?

lazs

Hangtime · « **Reply #99 on:** March 21, 2006, 09:26:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SMIDSY
i have another gun question: why arent all assault rifles in the bullpup configuration?

There's a common misconception regarding the 'assault rifle'.. yah ready for this???

... it ain't a 'rifle'. (it's a carbine) In fact, it's not even an assault weapon as virtually all sold into civilian hands are not fully automatic.

But.. if by main 'feature' relative to 'bullpup' you mean a heavy barrel, 18" long then the answer is round velocity and accuracy. The 'heavy barrel' reduces barrel harmonics, enhances accuracy sacraficed by the short barrel selection. (shorter barrels = lower muzzel velocity = reduced accurate range & stopping power).

Some years ago somebody noticed that with hot loads and high speed rounds the heavy thick walled barrels offered longer barrel life and improved repeatable accuracy as the weapon got hot...the American 'Varmit' rifles. The Aussies and the Israeli's equipped their FAL's with 'heavy barrels' on the full auto versions of their true[/b] assault rifes (24" barrel, 11 pounds, full auto .308) and putting them into the traditional role of the BAR. Prior to that the Finns married up their own very heavy barrels with captured Russian Mosin Nagant receivers and combined with a carefully armorer prepared heavy stock the result was the most accurate bolt rifle of WWII.. the M-39.

Nowadays, .223 carbines like the Colt AR-15 and it's many, many clones are benefiting from the 'bullpup' heavy barrel.. longer barrel life, improved accuracy when 'hot', and the added weight actually reduces felt recoil.. as if the lil carbines actually had anything approching the recoil of a true battle rifle.

Should be noted that a 'bullpup' carbine is capable of maintaining the same volume of fire (in terms of rounds fired over time) of it's big battle rifle brother, but it still has not the reach or punch of a real 7.62x51 (.308) battle rifle.

Goomba · « **Reply #100 on:** March 21, 2006, 09:44:48 AM »

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that "bullpup" refers not to barrel and weight specs, but to the placement of the trigger group well forward of the action, and the action located well back into a short stock.

I think the arrangement is designed to improve on the carbine concept by not limiting them to just a shortened barrel and stock. The reconfigure allows one to get the much shorter overall carbine length, while still maximizing barrel length.

As for why there are not more weapons of this configuration, I can't say with authority, but I'd hazard the following guess;

Bullpups do in fact, as Hang pointed out, have shorter carbine-length @18" barrels, whereas battle rifles typically have 22"-24"+ barrels for improved range and accuracy. Bullpups therefore have a place wherever a shorter, carbine style weapon would be appropriate, i.e...some special forces applications, some airborne applications, tank crews, etc... OTOH, don't forget how powerfully tradition influences arming choices for miltary services.

Didn't a large military just equip with bullpups, somewhere? The ANZACS perhaps? I don't recall precisely...anybody know for sure?

Hangtime · « **Reply #101 on:** March 21, 2006, 09:52:39 AM »

^^^^

Thanks!!

See, I learned something!

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #102 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:27:37 PM »

All you wanted to know about Bullpup design ...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup

They also make conversion kits for some rifles. I remember reading one on an AK conversion, it wasnt real popular IIRC. I'll try to dig up the link.

*Edit

Here's a company that offers the conversions for some limited rifles. Ruger 10/22 is a common enough rifle, you can see the difference. You'll have to live with the cruddy trigger pull, but it looks neat.

http://www.bullpupgunstocks.com/

**Edit

Duh, had to dig about 30 seconds more in my links to find it. He goes into pretty good detail on the problems with converting the gun in the first place, and then the problems you face using it in the bullpup configuration. Good read.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/kvargrunt.html

Dago · « **Reply #103 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:58:16 PM »

laz,

Quote

dago... have you read the manual for semi autos? every single one of em talks of jams.. all kinda jams. some jams that autos get can put the gun out of action till you get it to a gunsmith.

Have your heard me say autos dont jam? Properly maintained ones, with decent magazines very rarely do.

But....

I posted the quote from the Taurus manual because too many wheelheads are trying to say revolvers never jam. They do.

ChopSaw · « **Reply #104 on:** March 21, 2006, 05:19:24 PM »

I really like that signature, Dago.