Author Topic: Moderators- A search for guidelines and improvements.  (Read 3415 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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Moderators- A search for guidelines and improvements.
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2006, 08:06:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
Hmmm.  We may be able to change that.

- oldman (c'mon, folks, if you're going to push the line, don't expect that you're going to get absolute fairness of application.  Just stop pushing the line.)


The problem IS, the folks who are PROVOKING and INSTIGATING are "getting the Freedom to say the said things".   You sir, are oblivious for posting that.  

Karaya
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 08:13:00 AM by Masherbrum »
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Offline rod367th

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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2006, 08:10:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
MyTake:

1. Grmrpr dosn't like my mod system.
2. Grmrpr starts raisning a fuss in the main.
3. Dosn't win there because mods are doing what they are there 4. So he comes here and continues the same topic.
4. He tries shift the blaim to the mods instead of hist behavior.

Future step 5. He continues the same behavior and is no longer with us.

What it comes down to is very simple , If you do not know how to beheavior in a general social enviorment, no amout of rules will ever teach you to do so.

HiTech




 future step 5. to gmrpr. Now this is really disturbing to me when XXXXXXX Can swear at every player in game. threaten 100 at least of your customers that he'll beat them  to bloody pulp at convention. Abuses everyone who ever shot him down and has used every swear word know to man and racist comment. This person's punishment was 1 week no text. woho no wonder mod's have to work and ruffle feathers. Since people see this XXXXXXX  back in arena. People like him and few others is why new players coming in think this is what 200 is for to bait others into argument's and to act with no recourse. Because of this 1 player alone I think grrpr's questions are fair and should be discussed if not here then 1 to 1 by htc employee. using phone or e-mails.


please don't say send complaints or films of xxxxxxx to htc they have rec multi films and complaints about xxxxxxxx.



 I was so sure that XXXXXXXX was going to be banned for life just for comments he made to me not counting comments to others in pass. I was totally shocked that he got text back and was flying again. The first day he was back he had told people to use text chat on me so i get muted, and when I told others if they did they could get in trouble for using it. I got told off fast by HTC i was wrong not instigator.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2006, 09:34:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Just out of curiousity, IS there a policy regarding offensive player IDs?  I for one usually ignore them, but every so often it causes a stink (which is exactly what they wanted to accomplish).


Offensive IDs are easily addressed. Simply take a screen shot and e-mail it to Skuzzy. You can bet it will corrected immediately.

Trainers see offensive IDs all the time. In fact, many of the really bad IDs never get to the MA because a trainer happens to spot them in the TA.

Seriously obnoxious IDs may get the player ejected from the TA and HTC will be notified. Moderately bad taste IDs are usually handled by asking the player to select a more appropriate ID. If it's seen again, the issue is usually forwarded to HTC for adjudication.

As to being muted for foul or inappropriate language...

First off, I am not going to define HTC's policy for them, that is defined in their Terms of Service, which everyone playing this game has agreed to. I am simply going to describe what I know to be true as of right now. HTC can and will employ whatever policy they deem necessary. As a trainer, I am the face of HTC for many players. Therefore, my behavior as a trainer in the TA or as a player in the MA or even on these boards reflects on HTC for good or bad. Therefore, I personally will conduct myself according to that responsibility.

Policy in the TA is no different than in the MA, except that the trainer is known to the players. There is a critical difference between the TA and MA in this regard. Trainers have the power to eject players. Moderators do not, and cannot protect themselves other than by being anonymous. I can easily imagine witch hunts to find and gang moderators when they play in the MA.

In the TA, warnings are sent for minor swearing or name calling. Repeating the offense will result in muting. Really flagrant language will result in being instantly muted, and if it's a threat or ethic slur, instantly ejected. Arguing with the trainer over a rules violation can result in muting if the player becomes abusive or disruptive. In most instances, a player will be ejected if he continues to use foul language after the mute expires.

Trainers have the flexibility to enforce the rules on a case by case basis and the penalty (if any is imposed) is based upon what the trainer perceives as the player's intent. Some trainers allow for more latitude than others. I prefer to PM the offender and get them to change their behavior without a public dressing-down. This often does the trick. Sometimes it doesn't and I have to mute or eject the player. I would rather not have to resort to ejection as the player can simply log into the DA or MA and continue to misbehave, but on occasion there is no other option.

Gentlemen, be thankful that HTC hasn't seen the need to give MA moderators eject powers. I have seen plenty of things in the text buffer that I would have ejected the player for, as muting would be far too easy on them.

CMs, Moderators and Trainers are selected after thorough review by HTC and their future peers. Every effort is made to select people who will use sound judgement, who are not easily provoked, are even-tempered and fair minded.

That does not mean that any of these individuals will not have a bad day. They are not perfect. Poor decisions will be made, they will be rare, but they will happen. HTC understands this.

Nonetheless, if you believe you have a valid issue with a moderator, trainer or CM, the place for discussing this is not in the text buffer and not on the BBS either. The place to discuss this is via e-mail with HTC. Be sure to document the problem via film. If you don't have film, you won't have a case. If you have a valid issue, HTC will take the time to talk to the parties involved and if need be, will discipline the CM/trainer/moderator privately, and I know this for a fact.

So please, conduct these discussions via e-mail or phone call to HTC and not here.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 09:52:47 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2006, 09:43:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Offensive IDs are easily addressed. Simply take a screen shot and e-mail it to Skuzzy. You can bet it will corrected immediately.

Trainers see offensive IDs all the time. In fact, many of the really bad IDs never get to the MA because a trainer happens to spot them in the TA.

Seriously obnoxious IDs may get the player ejected from the TA and HTC will be notified. Moderately bad taste IDs are usually handled by asking the player to select a more appropriate ID. If it's seen again, the issue is usually forwarded to HTC for adjudication.

As to being muted for foul or inappropriate language...

That does not mean that any of these individuals will not have a bad day. They are not perfect. Poor decisions will be made, they will be rare, but they will happen. HTC understands this.

Nonetheless, if you believe you have a valid issue with a moderator, trainer or CM, the place for discussing this is not in the text buffer and not on the BBS either. The place to discuss this is via e-mail with HTC. Be sure to document the problem via film. If you don't have film, you won't have a case. If you have a valid issue, HTC will take the time to talk to the parties involved and if need be, will discipline the CM/trainer/moderator privately, and I know this for a fact.

So please, conduct these discussions via e-mail or phone call to HTC and not here.

My regards,

Widewing


The "favortism" has been obvious, and increasing for well over a year now.   If "Mute's are flagged for review" film should NOT be needed, as they can perform a cursory review the following day.  

The "bad day" excuse no longer applies.  What has been posted on 200 lately in inexcuseable and not Muted.  

Heck, I've had to squelch 3 Rooks for the last two months because they either "Cuss so dang much on green (and are NOT muted), cuss EXCESSIVELY on range, or try to be "Pocket Fuhrers".  

Karaya
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2006, 10:18:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
The "favortism" has been obvious, and increasing for well over a year now.   If "Mute's are flagged for review" film should NOT be needed, as they can perform a cursory review the following day.  

The "bad day" excuse no longer applies.  What has been posted on 200 lately in inexcuseable and not Muted.  

Heck, I've had to squelch 3 Rooks for the last two months because they either "Cuss so dang much on green (and are NOT muted), cuss EXCESSIVELY on range, or try to be "Pocket Fuhrers".  

Karaya


I do not know that there is 100% moderator coverage. Perhaps, there was no moderator online. I have walked away from my computer to deal with real life stuff for a few minutes, only to discover later that some kid had been badly misbehaving in the TA during my absence.

There will always be a need for self-policing in the MA. To do this effectively, you have to run film and send the film to HTC. If you have players using foul language in the MA, film it. You can complain to HTC, but the first question they will ask is, "do you have film?"

I have worked with Skuzzy on similar issues several times. Skuzzy has always done his best to prevent a reoccurance of bad behavior. However, he needs us, the players, to provide him with the evidence he needs. That evidence is film.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2006, 10:52:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
, or try to be "Pocket Fuhrers".  

Karaya


I see you are talking about JohnnyRa.  LOL, I look for him as soon as I get on, and mute him if I see his name in the rostor.  Sucks to have to, but I can not stand listening to him.
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Offline rod367th

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« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2006, 10:53:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I do not know that there is 100% moderator coverage. Perhaps, there was no moderator online. I have walked away from my computer to deal with real life stuff for a few minutes, only to discover later that some kid had been badly misbehaving in the TA during my absence.

There will always be a need for self-policing in the MA. To do this effectively, you have to run film and send the film to HTC. If you have players using foul language in the MA, film it. You can complain to HTC, but the first question they will ask is, "do you have film?"

I have worked with Skuzzy on similar issues several times. Skuzzy has always done his best to prevent a reoccurance of bad behavior. However, he needs us, the players, to provide him with the evidence he needs. That evidence is film.

My regards,

Widewing




Sorry widewing but flims and screen shots of worst offenders. only gets them 1 week no text and leaves vox text for them to belittle swear and threaten players and they stay in game and get text back 1 week. player xxxxxxxx lost text and still used vox private to swear and threaten HTC got screens and films and no further punishment to said player. Something is veryy wrong with TOS or HTC needing Cash maybe.


 that is why Grmpr's question is valid. Please explain to your CUSTOMERS how 1 person can get nothing done to him, and others can be banned for alot less. by alot less say there is cheat codes your banned instantly but to threaten players make racist statements use every swear word known and you only get 1 week no text. somethings not right

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2006, 12:11:20 PM »
hell, all I say is "Bush = Hitler" and I get chat banned for a week.

After the last chat ban, I sat amazed as the same person you are refering to Rod, went on a tirade that made even me amazed....

That is my issue, the lack of continuity between the system the mods use to mute.  The night that Edbert was politely talking to the mod and repeatedly getting muted is a prime example.  I know a lot of smart alecs, wise arses, and trash talkers on here, Edbert is definitely not one of them, and neither is Grm.
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Offline BlkKnit

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« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2006, 12:13:48 PM »
I dont think I have ever heard a word from a mod....wonder why that is?

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Offline fartwinkle

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« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2006, 01:08:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mr No Name
Moderators should never ever ever be anonymous.  As paying customers we are OWED some accountability.  This causes a secret police state mentality.  I saw it heavily abused the other night it seemed that anytime someone asked why they or another person was muted, another nute would follow.


LOL I'm sorry but this just struck me as funny coming from a gut called Mr No Name:rofl :rofl

Offline fartwinkle

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« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2006, 01:19:25 PM »
The problem as I see it is.
Mods are human just like you and me right!
Well all humans are prone to inconsistant and even play favorites see it many times.
So what is the cure to this cancer you ask?

I have no idea but I do know that for a small company like HTC with limited staff to even have to fart around with this is sad. They have better things to do.

I simply turn off channel 200 all together I never really have understood its usefullness anyways other than a place to run yer head.

Also The fact that someone on one team can text someone on another team just breeds the spying problem.

As far as Dales comments well I kinda see where he is coming from and also see where his comments might be abrasive.
Anyone who has played this game anytime knows that Dale is a wiz bang game developer but is sorry HT lacking in the people skills as are most folks blessed
with high IQ's.

So as we enjoy the free enterprise system we have choices.
And those are either enjoy the game and watch your mouth or dont it is your choice.

I have had my own squadmates ask me to calm it down on squad channel somethimes and for the most part they are right as rain cause I can go off like a crazy man at times.

Just remember guys it is a GAME not real life it is here for us to have fun at.
And if you get so wound up that you are not having fun any longer then maybe its time to step away for a few minutes.

A little respect goes along way.

Oh and in closing those who know me know that I am no HTC fanboy but I will ask you to take it easy on Dale and just for a moment put yourself in his shoes.

Offline BluKitty

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« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2006, 02:07:32 PM »
Ya noone is Biased, and Grm. is a verbal saint...... (rollseyes)

Offline Grits

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« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2006, 02:25:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BluKitty
Ya noone is Biased, and Grm. is a verbal saint...... (rollseyes)


Anyone who has witnessed JohnnyRa abuse and threaten people for hours on end in the arena know that the rules are not applied evenly. JohnnyRa has on private VOX threatened me with physical assault, literally threatened to come to my house and assault me, and I know of many others he has done this too. He has ranted for hours on 200 with nothing done to him. Although JohnnyRa is the one that comes to mind first, there are a few others that regularly do the same thing and clearly nothing is done because they continue for hours.

One of the few times I have been warned  by a Mod I was asking the person attacking me on 200 what justification they had for the attack and I[/i] was the one asked to drop it while the attacker went on for another 30 min. I did not use profanity, and I did not attack that person, I asked "What action by me gives you reason to attack me?" which was apparently against some rule of Moderation and was sent a warning.

Any attempt to claim that the rules are applied evenly is pure fantasy, which is my only beef with the moderation as it is now.

Offline fartwinkle

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« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2006, 02:40:59 PM »
My question is if someone is bustin yer chops on chl 200 then why do you even listen?
Some people just like the abuse i guess LOL.
Simple solution is to just turn off 200.
Works for me;)

Offline Grits

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« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2006, 02:47:35 PM »
Because for every idiot like JohnnyRa on 200 there are 50 other guys in other countries that I enjoy talking too and who are not abusive.