Author Topic: Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war  (Read 4638 times)

Offline Loyalist

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2001, 02:53:00 AM »
How and where would America deploy troops if war broke out in China? China is isolated and most of the battles would be fought in Korea, Mongolia or even Vietnam again.  It would not, and could not, be fought on mainland China.  Deploying forces in Taiwan would basically be a death trap.

China has the geographic advantage.

Sod

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2001, 03:03:00 AM »
Maverick and Toad:

I think I’ve chosen a very poor way of trying to express my views and feelings. Let me try to clarify what I meant. Please forgive me if this gets a little long.

There are indeed things in this world worth fighting for. I’ve no problem thinking of a few things I would gladly die for if the need arose. Examples would be my children, my wife, family and friends. The ideals I would fight for would indeed include stopping the marauding of a mad man or the ending of a genocide such as in our talk of WW2.

I’m in no way saying that defending ones self, or perhaps to a lesser degree ones beliefs and ideals is wrong. Far from it. But, and perhaps here is where my views are a little on the skewed side, I can’t think of a war that was started for those reasons.

Here as our example in this thread is China and Taiwan. What would be the actual cause of the war? In my eyes it would be Taiwan refusing to bow down to China and refusing to say they were a part of China,. The words causing this war would be "You are a part of China"  Simply words that are not worth, in this case China, starting a war over. To me its absurd to think that the lives of people are worth those words. Defending that freedom would be worth it, but the cause of the war, the thing that started it, would not be worth even one life lost in it.  

Maverick you’ve hit the nail on the head. War is a tragic waste. It seems they are usually started by, and please understand I speak of  the people that start them and not the people that actually end up having to go off and fight them,  mad men for reasons that in retrospect are so petty and meaningless.

What actually set me off on reading this thread was the thought that, and I’m not speaking of anything I’ve actually read here, people seeming to think that war between the US and China would be a good thing. Specifically things supposedly posted on other boards  by Chinese students, and some things said by some friends of mine. That people would actually talk as if they wanted a war just astounds me.  That there is even the remotest of possibilities of that war coming to be truly frightens me. The reasons  that war might  be started, a spy plane, an arms deal or a declaration of separatism made by a small island to a vastly larger nation,  makes  me truly sad.

I think there is where I was unclear. It seems the wars of our past and those still to come have or will have  their start at the hands of mad men who seem eager to end the lives of  sometimes tens of  millions of people over things that are not worth actually starting a war over.


Offline Loyalist

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2001, 03:17:00 AM »
I agree. However, we must remember the history of the Peoples Republic of China and how it was formed.  China invaded small countries along its borders and claimed they were "renagade provinces".  Tibet is a good example.  Thousands of priests were murdered, ancient documents and temples demolished, nuns raped and killed and Lamas kidnapped.  China is currently holding the Panchen Lama in prison.  Buddhists believe he is second to the Dalai Lama.  He was 6 years old when kidnapped and Tibeateans and Buddhists world wide do not know how he is.  On top of all this, China (even though they are against religion) has said that they, the government, will choose the next Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama.

I do not agree with a draft, going to war should be a very personal decision.  Nevertheless I do believe that I would go to war if it meant freeing a peaceful, oppressed people if there was absolutely no other course of action.

MrSiD

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2001, 03:45:00 AM »
'If we would cut trade with China they would be in trouble..'

Again it sounds like some of the Americans think that US is the whole world outside of China..

China does trade to hundreds of countries, your country (admittedly a big one) is still just one trade partner along with others.

One of the most ludicrive fields of trade for China is pirated products, cd-roms, t-shirts, nike shoes etc etc.. 90% of that trade happens through Russia.. You think they would cut trade with China in case of a conflict? LOL.

Offline Loyalist

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2001, 03:54:00 AM »
Cutting trade with China would hurt you just as bad.

Offline Kirin

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2001, 05:44:00 AM »
I don't know what they will be fighting with in world war 3, but I know what they will be fighting with in fourth World War: rocks & sticks more or less accuratly quoted from A. Einstein

I seriously doubt that any of the parties will summon a open conflict. Both countries should have enough brains to see that neither of them would gain anything from it. They will probably fight it out on a smaller scale on the back of second line countries - like they did before.

I agree on the statement that there was never a war being worth fighting it. Whatever motives were used to justify it - the main reason was power/control/money/whatever. Sure those poor people who fought and died in the war believed in religion/freedom/justice/whatever but they were misslead. Have you noticed that there were not many wars won by the bad guys? The victor writes history and sets moral standards. Since the western culture has almost conquered the world by luck/brutality/technological advancement/whatever people tend to think that everyone has to think and act like they do; that the world belongs to them. World domination will/is not be accomplished by rifles/tanks/nukes/whatever but by economy/media/ideology/whatever...

Brings me to the question: Can you get a BigMac in Beijing?

Real men fly Radial!

Offline Gh0stFT

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2001, 06:09:00 AM »
what war ??? make a no-fly-zone over
Taiwan and here we go, problem solved !  

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The statement above is false.

Offline StSanta

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2001, 07:08:00 AM »
Eloquently put Kirin.

Most wars it seems are about a few *individuals* at the top deciding, often based on personal preference, on what will happen.

Ego plays a huge role. It's human interaction almost 1 to 1 brought out.

Of course there are examples of wars being fought over more ideological reasons, but in the end, it's Mr Average Joe who gets to die and fight.

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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
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Sturm

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2001, 07:14:00 AM »
My last .02 worth here.  Seems we have a few pacifists running around here.  At any rate I have come to this scoring card which will help you all out.  This is based on a boxing card 12 round event.

Round 1 US 10  China 8
Round 2 US 10  China 8
Round 3 US TKO China not getting up for a long time.

Sorry but China cannot compete with us, and we will shut all your damn Chinese restaraunts down as well, and maybe the US public can come back from being so obese.

Offline Ripsnort

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2001, 08:27:00 AM »
Tuo, First, you stero-type folks, (See Redneck comment), then, you belittle folks who do believe in God. Then you make off hand comments about our election process you know nothing about.  So, you've proved several points to me.  You're hardly worth a rational debate with at this point.

Offline Tuomio

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2001, 08:44:00 AM »
Theres big difference in defending yourselfs and your friends and attacking to somewhere to defend somebody that you dont even know.
USQ cant justify any attacks unless they are for defending its own country. Why? Becouse wars are not computer games, they are things, where you end up killing millions of innocent people and very likely your own youth.

If you want to defend Taiwan, you cant do it with sendind unknown (for you) persons overseas to be massacred in the name of big money and big balls. Honour? Whats that? Is honour the thing, where you smoke a big fat cuban and decide, whos squad will be the first ones to sent in the sure death? Soldiers are just units to the officers.

I have been in the army of my country, but thats becouse our army is dedicated only to defend, not to attack. Sorry all you US military fanatics, but i see no benefits in war between china and usa. Theres no way, that USA could held the war in just Taiwans territory. It would end in USA sending its missiles to chinese cities to kill innocent children and women.

So, please dont talk about honour in this context, honour was something that was when man faced other man with swords. Today its all about pressing buttons and killing faceless "enemy" using your own youth to accomplish that.

Sturm

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2001, 08:58:00 AM »
Tuomio please see this link it might calm your nerves.
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/002017.html

And besides that, we are the big brother of all the other countries that cannot defend themselves against a larger foe.  A few Examples

France
Great Britain  
South Korea
Kuwait
Somalia
7-11 stores

Offline Boroda

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2001, 11:30:00 AM »
Patton? Who the hell is Patton? That bonehead  general from a stupid "stars and stripes" movie?

Sturm, in 1944 the "second front" was useless, and it's only purpose was to get some property before Russians will wash their boots in Atlantic. Very american decision.

Damn, Stalin sacrificed more then a million soldiers just to save the "allies" from 2 panzer divisions, when yankees got their pants wet and cried for help...

As for Russian position in the probable conflict between US and Chinese People's Republic - I think that we'll have to make some test launches and state that Russia will consider any massive missile launch form any side a direct danger to itself.

It should be much better then to help Chneese military against our main enemy. Too bad that our relations with China will not result in another "Weidadi Yui" because of upcoming economical crisis in the West.

Very sad  

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Offline Toad

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »
Boroda: "against our main enemy"

The "main enemy" of the Russian people is and always HAS been the leaders they allow to govern them.

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Boroda

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Its only a matter of time before the US/Chino war
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2001, 12:19:00 PM »
Toad, I have to completely agree with you   It have been so for the last 1000 years, since St. Vladimir, "the Bright Sun".

The problem is that current Russian administration slowly turns public opinion against USA, and US govnmnt helps them. Look at the story with Pavel Pavlovich Borodin.
/*hehe, I wanted to mail iEN because they caught the wrong person   */ Look at mr. Pope's case, "spies" in Russian embassy, etc.  Cold war again   Look, even you use the same cold war lexics now, like "Chi-coms".

Two sides of the problem: Putin preparing to take over the industry and save Russian economics by "wartime measures", and Bush wanting to evade the upcoming crisis by another "successful war" overseas.

As Cinese say: "I wish my enemies to live in an interesting time"  

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With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS