Author Topic: Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?  (Read 18606 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #270 on: March 30, 2006, 11:56:53 AM »


In the last 100 years, SL has risen somewhere between 10 and 25 CM

The predictor models in the graphic show between 10 and 100 CM in the next century.

Of course, on a geologic time scale, the sea level fluctuates on the order of 100 M under normal natural forces.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/clisci100k.html#sea
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Offline Jackal1

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #271 on: March 30, 2006, 02:13:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
yet the thread keeps growing.

Damnedest thing I have ever seen.
 




;)
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Offline Angus

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #272 on: March 31, 2006, 04:13:23 AM »
Jackal:
"You are thinking small here. No storm. Total destruction. You better put in a fictional bid for some fictional lumber from Agnus`s fictional forests before it is too late. "

Well, actually the destruction of forests and corrosion is perhaps a bigger problem than Greenhouse effects.
They relate of course.
Vast planting is one way to counter things, NOT destroying forests to get cheaper coffe and beef is another thing.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline eagl

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #273 on: March 31, 2006, 04:34:43 AM »
Urchin,

Check out "Falling Angels" by Niven/Pournelle (if I recall correctly).  It's fiction based on the premise that we *should* be in an ice age but modern influences are holding it back until the environment abruptly crosses over to massive cooling effects.

Pournelle's basic point is that there is no *good* science behind the anti-global warming measures.  Sure there is a lot of evidence that the earth is warming, but the actual scientific data is completely insufficient to begin prescribing expensive measures or declaring this or that technology is the cause.  Not only is the data insufficient, the ONLY major efforts underway in this area are expensive endeavours to combat technologies that have been the targets of environmental whackos for decades.  There are NO major long-term scientific efforts being funded by ANY government, university, or environmental group to fully understand the environment and to separate natural effects/cycles vs. human created effects.

In the book, the folly of undertaking massive knee-jerk reactions to environmental changes without even trying to understanding the underlying systems leads to a sudden ice age.  That's the danger we're facing now, and it's not just global temperatures.  When the global DDT ban went into effect, it helped save numerous species from extinction but it's also doomed millions of people to die from malaria and other insect-spread disease.  Why can't the world allow DDT to be used in areas where the wildlife impact is limited to the insects that are truly controlled by NOTHING BUT DDT?  Why?  Because the DDT ban was an emotional reaction, not the result of a thorough scientific analysis of effects, benefits, and drawbacks.  A North American ban makes sense, but an African ban does not.  So millions die while we congratulate ourselves on the return of the Bald Eagle and the California Condor...

The same risk exists for all the proposed global warming remedies.  We don't understand the systems but we're undertaking massive economic and industrial changes without true scientific basis.  Yes, everyone can agree that acid rain is *bad* and airborne particulates are unhealthy.  But there are other areas under scrutiny that follow the pattern:

I don't like xxx
Global warming!!!!!111one
Ban xxx !!111one

Fallen Angels is fiction, but it's a perspective that people don't think about because the global environment is being debated on an emotional level instead of a long-term unbiased scientific basis.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Angus

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #274 on: March 31, 2006, 04:38:10 AM »
Look here:
CO2 in the atmosphere:


And then the temperature:



Funny, isn't it!
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #275 on: March 31, 2006, 04:39:39 AM »
And another one....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #276 on: March 31, 2006, 08:12:38 AM »
OK, we can do some chart swapping.
One dimenisional don`t cut it though.
They are all studies which only result in theories.
Theories being the key word.


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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #277 on: March 31, 2006, 08:34:06 AM »
...except that Angus's last pic comes from the Department of Ecology on Washington's official state website. Yours looks like it comes from some aces high repository...

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #278 on: March 31, 2006, 08:34:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Jackal:
"You are thinking small here. No storm. Total destruction. You better put in a fictional bid for some fictional lumber from Agnus`s fictional forests before it is too late. "

Well, actually the destruction of forests and corrosion is perhaps a bigger problem than Greenhouse effects.
They relate of course.
Vast planting is one way to counter things, NOT destroying forests to get cheaper coffe and beef is another thing.


Rut Roh! Missed this one . Sorry.
Vast planting is not going to happen on a scale of which would have even a microscopic difference. Even , in such a fairy tale scenario , if it were done, it would set us back a few hundred years in the process from a CO2 output standpoint. Point A, yaknow. :)
Forest fires wipe out thousands and thousands of acres a year. This has been happening as long as history has been recorded. So, on one hand , it wipes out the forest growth, while on the other hand it produces and encourages new, healthy growth. Mother nature`s cycles. Same with weather patterns and temperature. They fluctuate and change cycles.
As far as corrosion goes........In my life time I have seen great improvemnts and changes in the way corrosion is handled and stopped , dead in it`s tracks. One small example would be the use of terraces. Has worked wonders here in the last fifty years or so. Leave it to the brilliant to "come up with" a plan such as this. A plan that was used and implemented dating back to at least biblical times. Simplicity, old tryed and true methods and plain old common sense will do more good without having drastic negative effects. Experimenting based on some half baked theories when it concerns mother nature is just not too great of an idea.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 08:39:38 AM by Jackal1 »
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Offline Jackal1

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Global Warming... is THIS how we'll perish?
« Reply #279 on: March 31, 2006, 08:38:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
...except that Angus's last pic comes from the Department of Ecology on Washington's official state website. Yours looks like it comes from some aces high repository...


So Beet, all of a sudden you have done a complete 180 and proclaim your total devotion and trust in those in Washington. That, my friend , is equal to me booking a trip to England. :rofl
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #280 on: March 31, 2006, 08:43:18 AM »
ROFL - not DC, Washington state. Can't see why I'm breaking new ground by quoting an American source. I'm a great fan of Sagan, as well you know! And... in the USA green up thread, I quoted several American sources of info.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #281 on: March 31, 2006, 08:49:24 AM »
What Angus charts show is that over the last 140 years the average temperature has risen by .9 degrees celsius.

Jackal's chart shows that the average temperature rose by .5 degree celsius during the twenty year period from 1978 to 1998...then there was an abrupt drop of almost .3 degree celius from 1998 to 1999.

What does it all MEAN!!??  I'm so CONFUSED!!

Offline indy007

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« Reply #282 on: March 31, 2006, 08:51:08 AM »
Personally, I blame the co2 on the Brits. :lol

Seriously though, I gotta call shennanigans(sp?) on all of the charts. Just browsing the web you can find UAH MSU with a +0.293 deg C variation for 02-06, with GISTEMP you get +0.86 for 02-06, NCDC Anomaly 02/06 @ +0.44...

Now, considering we don't even know the absolute mean surface temperature of the planet to +-0.7 deg C anyways... which one of those is supposed to be correct?

Angus, you should check out this book by Bjorn Lomborg. iirc, he's a Danish statician. Good read.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #283 on: March 31, 2006, 08:55:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Can't see why I'm breaking new ground by quoting an American source.  


:rofl Breaking new ground???? Beet, you have been on the same path so long it has ruts in it three feet deep. :)

Quote
I'm a great fan of Sagan


Well, I take it back. There is something new and original. Self bashing/self ridicule. :rofl

Quote
I quoted several American sources of info.  


Back to the norm.

The point being, there are many studies and theories from many places , with many different opinions and beliefs. The only thing certain is that all of them are theory.
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Offline beet1e

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Thames Barrier Closures
« Reply #284 on: March 31, 2006, 08:59:23 AM »
And there's this - as can be seen, the Thames Barrier at Woolwich, which forms London's main flood defence and was completed in 1984, has had to be closed more times each year with the passage of time, due to rising sea levels caused by (you guessed it!) global warming and polar ice cap meltdown.



It is estimated that as sea levels continue to rise, the Thames Barrier may not form an adequate defence by 2030, and something else will have to be built in its place.

Study this chart carefully - it is fact, not theory - for those of us who know the difference!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 09:02:16 AM by beet1e »