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Author Topic: spanked by a p-38 last night  (Read 2999 times)

Offline SgtPappy

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spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 07:56:35 PM »
Back again! I know this is a relatively old post... but correct me if I'm mistaken when I say that the P-38L should outturn planes like a Spit8 intially with those Fowler flaps...

According to the knowledge I've attampted to compiled in my tiny head, Fowler flaps increase wing area when they open, allowing the 'Devil' to outturn the likes of the P-51 -for example- with no prob at all. But according to Dr.Gonzo's charts, the P-51 will outturn the P-38 when both use flaps. I do often outturn 'Stangs in my Lightning, but I'm just assuming they don't use full flap...

or does my use of rudder help me turn immensely? Hmm...

I mean, that whole P-38 vs. Spit14 thing... the P-38 won hands down.

and Sax, good ol' pal, the P-38's uber and absolutely sextacular lol. The Hog is too, so don't take away my soul by insulting Kelly's invension. =P
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Offline SkyRock

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spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2006, 09:31:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LYNX
p38 is a good climber.  Better than the F4uD.  When u looped you played straight into his hands.  I would also say the p38 with some flaps is more than adequate to turn with your flap down F4uD.

I would disagree if both started at same E, hog has angles 38 cant do and 38 has angles hog cant do so it comes down to chess! :aok
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 01:49:28 AM »
AHHHHHH! Zombie thread! KILL IT! KILL IT!

*Runs away screaming*
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Offline Ack-Ack

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spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 01:53:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SgtPappy
Back again! I know this is a relatively old post... but correct me if I'm mistaken when I say that the P-38L should outturn planes like a Spit8 intially with those Fowler flaps...

According to the knowledge I've attampted to compiled in my tiny head, Fowler flaps increase wing area when they open, allowing the 'Devil' to outturn the likes of the P-51 -for example- with no prob at all. But according to Dr.Gonzo's charts, the P-51 will outturn the P-38 when both use flaps. I do often outturn 'Stangs in my Lightning, but I'm just assuming they don't use full flap...

or does my use of rudder help me turn immensely? Hmm...

I mean, that whole P-38 vs. Spit14 thing... the P-38 won hands down.

and Sax, good ol' pal, the P-38's uber and absolutely sextacular lol. The Hog is too, so don't take away my soul by insulting Kelly's invension. =P


It really boils down to what the speed range is in the fight.   The P-38 is better at high speed manuevering and can out turn a Spitfire above 300mph IAS.  It is when the speeds gets down to the medium ranges (250mph IAS to 150mph IAS) that the Spitfire can easily out manuever a P-38 in a turn fight.  A good P-38 stick might be able to use vertical manuevers to keep out of a gun solution and try to either get the fight to go fast by diving away for speed or try to burn as much energy from the Spitfire that the speed range dips into the low end (150mph IAS and slower) where the P-38 has a slight edge, especially at stall speeds due to it's gentle stall characteristics and lower stall threshold.  But the best way to kill a Spitfire is to keep the fight fast and in the vertical as much as possible.


ack-ack
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 02:01:24 AM »
Unless you are a 38G driver.  Then just get down and dirty with em low and slow.  You can out turn most of the Spit drivers out there cause the majority of em do nice flat turns and stall out before the 38G does and have to try and run, in particular th 16 drivers who try and turn with ya.  Those clipped wings work against em :)
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Offline Treize69

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spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 07:54:57 AM »
Maybe you just lost because the P-38 is a far superior plane to any Hog? :D :p
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 08:28:32 AM »
PFffft.
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Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Yukon

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spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 10:07:50 AM »
This thread is super old, and 38 is not bugged anymore...


get used to it.;)
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Offline Raptor

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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2006, 11:35:26 AM »
F4U seems to turn better with full flaps out, but once a hog gets full flaps out it burns a LOT of E. If the P38 pilot knows anything about flying, if the flight gets into a situation totally dependent on horizontal turning radius, the f4u will be able to jerk around quicker. BUT the P38 will be able to go vertical much better. The f4u is good in the vertical yes, but when it comes down to the full flap speeds, no torque vs. lots of torque really comes into play. The f4u might be able to pull off a short burst, but will most likely flip over and set itself up to be shot. So f4u better hope it hits the P38 when attempting to follow it vertical.

Spits OTOH... I kind of miss the old days in AH when more people flew spit5s and spit9s. Now (in LW) only spit you encounter is spit16. That is why I like MW more than LW, you see more spit5s, 9s, and 8s. A good spit5 SHOULD out turn a P38 every time, but P38 should be able to win if it uses the P38 correctly (no not bore n' snore tactics).

I disagree yukon... P38 pilot dies too easy:p
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Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2006, 12:02:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
Maybe you just lost because the P-38 is a far superior plane to any Hog? :D :p
I would laugh but Im too busy laughing!:rofl :lol
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2006, 12:29:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
I would laugh but Im too busy laughing!:rofl :lol


I don't know. I thought the old 38G hung with your Hog pretty well the other night :)
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Offline humble

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« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2006, 02:58:59 PM »
Toons i think just about everythings been covered to some degree....

My thoughts are as follows....

1st....

fly to kill and fly with a plan....you did neither. The d hog is a match for any plane in the game. It's not the best plane....but it has strengths you can utilize in any one on one fight. Does it mean you have the better plane...NO...but it means you can put up a good fight....

At 7k you had some alt so you have a couple of basic options...I'd hate to give my aly away before I knew what I was dealing with so I'd "invite him on in".

His 1st pass will tell me alot about how he flies. A good 38 driver will fight you from the top with high yoyo's driving you down in a vertical engagement....inviting you to try and get cute....but sriving you to the deck.

Any other fight strays from the 38's stengths IMO....

Against a well flown 38 I'd try and stay high for a pass or two and get him "dialed in" to his reversing hi yoyos....then drag him down. You'd need to get him fast WHILE he's engaged. As his speed picks up you need to convert to a scissors and then a rolling scissors to force him in front. does it always work....nothing does. But you need to have a grasp of your basic options. I know i have a bunch of hog/38 clips but no clue whats what.

This is a P38G vs 109F clip that might illustrate a bit about what i'm saying.

If you break it down you have an initial "engagement" which I bail on once I know where I stand....then even when I'm "running" I know what my plan is....at one pont you'll hear a squaddie ask if I want him to come help....basically I know I can reverse the 38 pretty easily. That doesnt mean i can kill him....but I have a decent idea on what he can and cant do...

http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/109clips/109Fvs38G.ahf

Best thing you can do is spend as much time in the TA as possible during your 1st months in the game.
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Offline Sweet2th

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Re: spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2006, 03:02:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toons
not sure exactly what happened, or what i should have done here.

i was flying a f4u-d, and i was getting ready to rtb.  had about a quarter tank of fuel.

as i was getting ready to head back to base, a lone p-38 flew ho to me, engaging me.  i had about 250 kts. and maybe 7k alt, so i dove for the deck to get speed and extend to disengage.  the problem was that i was extending away from base and friendlies, so i pulled up into a loop to reverse direction.  sure enough, the p-38 was still back there, about 1000 yards out.  as i came over the top, we went head on again, and i continued my loop until i was about 100' feet off the water, heading full blast rtb.

i was giving the plane everything i had, including wep, but after a few seconds i had tracers going by my windshield.  i was jinking, but as the tracers kept coming, i wasn't sure if he was closing or losing ground.  

i didn't know if i could drag him all the way to friendly territory, so i pulled back into him a third time to engage.  as i came over the top, he had angles on me, maybe 600 yds back and shooting.  as i went inverted and back nose low, i rolled right 90-110 degrees, and pulled into a left, high yo-yo turn.  a few second later, bullets shredded my plane.  i bailed, but with no altitude, i couldn't open my chute in time and died.

anyway, any advice in this situation is welcome.  i've read the soda's aircraft pages, and i didn't think a p-38 would be able to turn with me, nor climb with me.  the bottom line was i should have never let this guy get on my 6...that was poor sa in letting him engage me with me heading towards enemy territory.

i think the guy's name was clnumb or something like that.  

thanks,
toons


Landing gear & Fuel Management.
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Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2006, 04:13:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
I don't know. I thought the old 38G hung with your Hog pretty well the other night :)
You do realize that we didnt have same E....right?  Not taking anything away from your kill and your fight, but you bounced me!  I turned your superior E as much as possible but with an E advantage to start, and a good pilot behind the controls of the 38, I'd give it to the 38.  I stated earlier that "if" both planes started with the same E, then both planes have advantageous angles to be exploited, so it becomes a chess match!  I guess your "queen" pwned my rook that night!  hee hee :aok
BTW  <> for a good tangle, bro!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 04:16:47 PM by SkyRock »
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Re: spanked by a p-38 last night
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2006, 04:15:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
Landing gear & Fuel Management.

:confused: landing gear????????
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