Wuz Up With These Flight Dynamics

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by hogenbor
And would you be so kind to give a brief tutorial on how to do exactly that?

Do you know the secret handshake?

[mussie]

I am curious LEDPIG. From what you said here:

Originally posted by LEDPIG
Wow that Johnny Johnson quote is really amazing. I wisk we could get his advice. Yea the Bonanza leap is a big one,never flown one, but thats a nice plane its almost pretty aerobatic itself. I'm just an aviation nut proud to be in good company!:D

Or more specifically: I wisk we could get his advice.

I get the impression that you work in Flight Sim development would that be correct?

[straffo]

Originally posted by hogenbor
And would you be so kind to give a brief tutorial on how to do exactly that?

Easy , you scream like a wookie and next you warp the space-time continuum around her.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I seriously doubt there are any WWI veterans flying AH II. They'd be well over 100 at least. Especially the pilots..

typo sorry....

but yeah the guy form the con is what i was talking about.

i know there are a few WWII vets flying AH, mostly not real vocal, but i remember hearing about them through the grapevine.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I was just clowning on the WWI thing, I knew it was a typo. Yeah, we have, or at least had a few veteran pilots here. Earl "Dutch" Miller is one, although I have not heard from him in a while. He flew AW as well. Although he flew the P-38, he flew the P-47 and P-39 more.

[Karnak]

I rememeber a New Zealander Spitfire vet who flew the AH Spit for one of our NZ players.  I recall the comment being that it was pretty good, but the roll response was mushy compared to the real thing.

[Badboy]

Originally posted by Widewing However, you can loop a P-38 beginning at 150 mph, just gotta know how to do it.
Originally posted by hogenbor And would you be so kind to give a brief tutorial on how to do exactly that?

Here is an example with a P-38L I flew a few minutes ago. From a hard left hand turn at 140mph, I rolled out into a loop, speed went down to 20mph at one point, but the maneuver was completed without departure, as you can see in the film.

Film of a low speed loop in a P-38L

Watch the firm first, I'll answer questions afterwards

Hope that helps...

Badboy

[Widewing]

Here's another brief film demonstrating loops in the P-38G and F4U-1D. The film is zipped.

Both begin by taking off and leveling off immediately. As air speed passes 140 mph, the fighters are pulled into a loop. Typically, speed peaks at about 145 mph (as seen on E6B).

Most people would not recommend looping from nearly ground level, but it can be done without undue drama in a limited number of fighters. Just remember to pull off power on the way down.

Spitfires (any model) can't remain in plane, and invariably fall-off to the right, not being able to complete the loop headed in the original direction. Zeros do it well, as one would expect. The Hurricane Mk.I can do it, the but the Mk.IIC doesn't do nearly as well. You'll find the Ki-84 can do it, but can't remain in plane like the P-38G or f4U-1D/F4U-4. The Macchi C.202 can't do it at all. Another that does it well is the F6F-5, but the FM-2 falls out of plane more. I tried the Bf 110C. It was able to do the loop, but fell completely out of plane.

One surprise was the La-7. It was able to perform the loop and generally remain in plane, nearly as good as the F4U-4. It was significantly more stable at the top of the loop than any of the Spitfires. All were tested with 25% fuel, 1.0 fuel burn.

Here's the short film loopers

My regards,

Widewing

[OLtos]

I am a historian by avocation, with a Masters.  So I thought I would do some serious original research on AC Performance and the National Air and Space Museum.  Holy crap.  Spent a week down there and soon realized that nothing was going to be easy.

However I did have a real interesting chat with the some of the researchers at the Garber fascility.  They made the very emphatic point that the performance of aircraft in the field differed by as much as +- 20% from their stated "on paper" capabilities.  Plus or Minus 20% is huge. and is a wide enough margin for error to accomodate anyone's objections and most of the divergences we read in our sources.

Also, while HiTech claims to stick to historical accuracy, AND where ever I have been able to check it he seems to fall in line with what sources I have seen. I have yet to see a bibliography from Hitech Creations, and to a historian that emmediately smacks of academic dishonesty, and instantly calls into question the very notion that they have any real clue as to what is "historical".  

So, while I used to go balistic over what I percieved as "a-historical" flight performance I have had to really rethink that whole stand.  HT is doing the best they can with what they got, and I am pretty sure they don't have much.

[Karnak]

OLtos,

For a historian or for an academic paper that is absolutely true, but for a business in competition with other businesses they have to protected their data.  A lot of money and work goes into it and it isn't the kind of think that can be freely handed away.  That they don't publish their sources doesn't mean that they don't have solid, historical data.

[gripen]

IMHO there is large grey area; generally the flight dynamics of the game itself is more or less business secret of the HTC. But of course it's open for discussion if one can point out clear evidence that there is something wrong with the game.

Performance data is a bit different case; probably more than 99% of the data is from public archives but dugging it out might take a lot of time and effort so it's understandable that HTC does not reveal their sources.

Anyway, if somebody want argue about the data here in BBS, the data should be verifyable and methods/sources open just like in the academic world. Otherwise there would be no sensible discussion.

gripen

[Kev367th]

Somethings strange..

Was checking a skin I was doing offline and got sidetracked.
When I came back the Spit 9 was at 40k!!!!
So I looked at skin and threw it into a power dive.

Reached a shade over 600mph (ground speed on e6b) close to sea level!!!!!, with it slowly levelling out as it reached the ground.
Without losing anything!!!!!

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Somethings strange..

Was checking a skin I was doing offline and got sidetracked.
When I came back the Spit 9 was at 40k!!!!
So I looked at skin and threw it into a power dive.

Reached a shade over 600mph (ground speed on e6b) close to sea level!!!!!, with it slowly levelling out as it reached the ground.
Without losing anything!!!!!

Have you seen this from another thread? Two of us have dived Me 262s and reached Mach one between 18k and 20k. I can't tell if E6B pegs at Mach one or that there is a programmed limit of Mach one. Either way, the 262 should never get above Mach 0.86 without tuck-under followed by break-up. Tuck-under is not modeled for any aircraft.



Also, I was able to dive the Me 163 to Mach 0.92 and pull out using trim. The plane suffered no damage.

Read through the thread titled sound barrier.

My regards,

Widewing

[joeblogs]

That's right. It's difficult enough for these gys to make money. Their stick in trade is the flight model.

-Blogs

Originally posted by Karnak
OLtos,

For a historian or for an academic paper that is absolutely true, but for a business in competition with other businesses they have to protected their data.  A lot of money and work goes into it and it isn't the kind of think that can be freely handed away.  That they don't publish their sources doesn't mean that they don't have solid, historical data.

[joeblogs]

I would think it's primarily the difference in wing loading on these military planes, which is twice or more that of the light civil aviation craft.

Take off with all the gas and ammo you can carry and a number of these planes are only marginally stable.

-Blogs

Originally posted by LEDPIG
Hey guys, been playing this for a couple weeks now and i'm really wondering bout these flight dynamics....