Author Topic: Six F15's vs one Raptor (Read 2261 times)

MANDO · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2006, 07:09:13 PM »

Let me guess, 20 AOA, 179 knots and 1.7G, were they really mockfighting?

RAIDER14 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2006, 09:18:57 PM »

F-22 is the United States top fighter/attack aircraft

Vulcan · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:10:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
F-22 beware the Mig15, Yeah baby!

I love the F22 have for years but I gots ta axe, how will the F22 wage war against the islamofacists suiciders?

Don't mock it... back when NZ was still part of ANZUS we had a couple of our decrepid Skyhawks make fools of some eagle jocks. It turns out our scooters were so old, so lacking in anything 'avionic', combined with a small visual signiture they found it easy to bounce the eagles.

How would an F-22 do if one of those souped up Mig-21 snuck up its 6 with an IR missile? The tech can take you so far, at the end of the day its gonna be down to the pilot, his wingie, and/or the awac's telling them theres a mig crawling up their backsides.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:30:15 PM »

so lets take things 50 year into the furture.....

stealth tech has advanced to the point where all aircraft have the capabilities of the raptor, and A2A missles become more and more dificult to use....

are we going to see a gradual phazing back in of dogfights using guns as the primary weapon??

Chairboy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2006, 11:27:56 PM »

50 years from now, the skies will be empty.

Flying fighting will be down at the tree tops, with unmanned drones. Fleets of thousands of them doing close support operating against any troops caught out in the open, plus knocking each other down.

Any plane that enters an engagement zone would have to avoid radar, thermal, RF, Magnetic, and who knows what other types of tracking. Mass-based? Missiles will get so sophisticated that they'll be able to disregard any amount of jinking and countermeasures will be ineffective.

Counter-missile defenses will evolve in-step with this, and eventually the missiles will be mostly neutralized, but will then be replaced by the next step:

First, let me preface this by suggesting that MBTs and Artillery will be combined into the same vehicle. All of the tanks/fighting vehicles in the theater will be networked together. Any aircraft entering the zone would be tracked by ground units who would instruct any units ahead to fire inert or fin-guided rounds to intercept the plane. Inert rounds would be able to take out level flying planes without triggering their missile detectors (no thermal bloom), rounds with fins for terminal guidance would be able to deal with maneuvering targets. Again, no easy IR detection of the incoming rounds.

Out over the water, maybe there'll still be room for fighting, but even then, I'm guessing swarms of drones.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2006, 11:48:36 PM »

good call, forgot them.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #21 on:** April 18, 2006, 02:55:03 AM »

So in essence if the raptor relies on awacs to spot its targets, the awacs becomes the kill priority number one. After that is gone the raptor is reduced to using it's own radar which can be tracked.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2006, 03:01:06 AM »

Except f22 radar is not easy to track.

eagl · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2006, 05:42:00 AM »

stsanta,

You make some assumptions that are not valid. That's about all I'll say about that

The F-22 is not an evolutionary design. It represents a true revolution, just like the original F-15 was a true revolution in air superiority. The SU-27 family is a great design, but it's not current-generation.

I personally see only 2 F-22 weaknesses. The first is that it carries no more missiles than an F-15. I personally think that this is a serious limiting factor. Second, the reliance on computers and software both gives it a MASSIVE advantage against any other non-US integrated warfighting system, and an equally massive achilles heel. IMHO the F-22 NEEDS a gun and a manual backup flight control system. We've already lost one F-22 when the all-digital flight control system wasn't working, and lack of redundancy is a weakness in combat.

When it comes down to it, that proverbial mig-15 actually is one of the F-22's greatest threats. That's something that needs to be recognized and it's why the limited F-22 purchase and early production line closure disturbs me.

Swager · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2006, 07:13:14 AM »

Im sure these pilots are told not to give the F-22 any bad press out. When the Air Force is trying to buy these planes, it is not good for the pilots to say anything negative. IF they did, they might find themselves on the bottom of the promotion list.

Probably 50% truth and 50% garbage.

eagl · « **Reply #25 on:** April 18, 2006, 07:19:10 AM »

Swager,

As someone who's fairly close to that fight, I'd guess it's closer to 95% truth and 5% BS. The F-22 successfully addresses things the F-15 community has been wanting for decades, and in my opinion it's the right plane at the right time. Yea it costs a lot but having the best always carries a price premium.

EN4CER · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2006, 07:26:31 AM »

The big question is “How long will stealth technology keep us at the top?” I’m sure we have some type of advanced radar that can detect our stealth aircraft. Manufacturers of Law Enforcement Radar and Laser Speed Estimation Equipment are normally the same manufacturers of Radar and Laser Detectors. How soon before foreign countries can detect our stealth aircraft?

indy007 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 18, 2006, 08:39:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by EN4CER
The big question is “How long will stealth technology keep us at the top?” I’m sure we have some type of advanced radar that can detect our stealth aircraft. Manufacturers of Law Enforcement Radar and Laser Speed Estimation Equipment are normally the same manufacturers of Radar and Laser Detectors. How soon before foreign countries can detect our stealth aircraft?

Kinda sorta, but not. Moore's law applies to both the radar and the stealth. Stealth is based on shape and materials, a million little triangles that appear smooth. As computing power increases, while more powerful radar is created, stealth design is also refined further & further with more elaborate computer modelling and more advanced flight control systems.

As for an F-22 being in danger with no AWACS support.. well, with datalinks, a lone F-22 can function as the AWACS for its local airspace, using a phased array radar with a 200 mile range. If you see me with my radar on, but you're still 100-150 miles away (with multiple F-15s, F-16s, & Raptors in between us)... well, sucks to be you.

Watch, next thing you know, an F-22 is going to lock something up, sort the target, and a 747 with a frikkin' laser beam for a nose is going to start popping fighters while they climb out. I see that happening before drones. I watched a laser test firing that burned a huge hole in a sheet of titanium, and they claim to be able to shoot down missles... so why not just point it at a fighter?

john9001 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:46:27 AM »

the F22 carries a gun.

bozon · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:28:16 AM »

Quote

As Huffman told Code One magazine, the 64th flew almost 300 sorties against the Raptors “and we never once got to merge [make visual contact] against a single Raptor”.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard. Pressing the fire button at 30 miles, turning back and declaring simulated victory is retarded.

In real life the other side will have its own electronics and not always the kind you know about. Radar guided missiles are much simpler to jam and misguide than heat seekers, not to mention that you get a lot more time for it.

Not saying the F22 isn't that good, but this is hardly any kind of a test.

Bozon