Author Topic: Seafire Questions (Read 1764 times)

Jester · « **on:** April 21, 2006, 08:43:21 PM »

I have a couple of questions for you Spifire/Seafire experts out there..........

1. What Spitfire Model that we have here in AH comes closest to the LH Mk. III SEAFIRE.

2. I've seen notes of the Seafire III, Seafire IIIc & Seafire LF III - what is the difference?

Tks in advance.

!

Kev367th · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2006, 09:25:39 PM »

1) We don't really have one now. The 'old' Spit V would be the closest.

New Spit V is nowhere near being a suitable candidate. Inferior weapons loadout, inferior motor.

2) All Seafire III's were L III's with Merlin 55M. (barring the initial small batch of F III's which were superceded very quickly, and a few FR III's.)

I have had a problem with the IIc since the remodel -

1) The IIc was amongst the lowest number produced of any Seafire.
2) With the Merlin 46 it's the rarest Seafire IIc made.

Only the first 100 or so IIc's had the Merlin 46, all the rest were given the improved Merlin 32. Then later the first 100 or so were retro-fitted with the Merlin 32.
So in effect all IIc's used the Merlin 32.

The ONLY scenarios run so far directly involving the Seafire would have been the L III model not the IIc.

Good idea would be to bring back the 'old' Spit V with the Merlin 55M, making it an LF Vc. (can even clip it)
It would also be a perfect sub for the LIII which also had the Merlin 55M. (Seafire L III's flew clipped so no prob).
Or vice-versa, a Seafire L III can sub for a LF Vc.

Added bouns - up to mid 43 the LF V was still the majority (numbers wise) Spit flown by the RAF, not the F IX or LF IX.

Clipped LIII

Jester · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2006, 08:57:04 AM »

Thanks for the info Kev. (Also the pic for the collection!)

!

Kev367th · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2006, 10:23:24 AM »

YW.

Little bit more -

Seafires seen action during both the Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns, and ended up providing air cover from Kamikaze attacks for the British Pacific Fleet during the final operations against the Japanese mainland.
Apart from a brief stint in Malta by a single squadron, and another used during D-Day, the overwhelming majority of action for the LIII was in the Pacific.

By the end of the war there were -

4 x Seafire IIc squadrons.
8 x Seafire L III squadrons.

IIc -
372 built - 110 Westlands, 262 Supermarine.
110 built by Westalnds orignally fitted Merlin 46, refitted with Merlin 32 (approx mid 43).
262 built by Supermarine all had Merlin 32.
When fitted with the Merlin 32 known as L IIc.

First service Mid 1942.

L III
1263 built - 913 by Westlands, 350 by Cunliffe Owen
About 30 initially had fixed wings, known as IIc hybrid.

First service Nov 1943.

Jester · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2006, 11:44:18 PM »

The Seafire II is roughly a "Navalized" Spitfire Vb correct?

Kev367th · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2006, 12:53:52 PM »

Basically - same motor but the Seafire IIc has the extra 60 rounds per cannon over the Vb. Plus extra weight from the hook and strengthening.
Thats why it can't be a satifactory sub for an L III, the later Seafire had a low alt superior Merlin 55M compared to our Merlin 46 in the Vb and IIc.

Old Spit Vc would have been a good sub for the Seafire L III.

The Spitifre Vb we have would be a good standin for a Seafire Ib which were converted RAF Vb's.

To complete the Spit/Seafire lineup all we need is -

LF Vc - Basically old Mk V, but clip it. (can also sub as LIII)
XII - Used to run down the 190's doing low level bombing raids.

A bonus would be the F.21 (perked).

Can't really think of any other version/variant that would be needed.

Jester · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2006, 02:06:40 PM »

Is the difference between the Seafire L Mk. III & LF Mk. III the Clipped Wings on the former?

Also you mentioned the number of squadrons operational with SEAFIRE'S - You didn't mention how many were equiped with the Griffon Engined SEAFIRE XV. Do you have any specs or numbers on this aircraft?

SEAFIRE XV - 801 SQUADRON - HMS IMPLACABLE - BRITISH PACIFIC FLEET

I read somewhere that there were a couple SEAFIRE XV Squadrons getting ready to ship out with the British Pacific Fleet when the war ended. This aircarft might end up the same way as the USN's F8F BEARCAT.

!

Kev367th · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2006, 02:22:14 PM »

LF III - L III = Same aircraft, just the different way the Fleet Air Arm referred to the RAF LF series.

XV - Yup there was a couple squadrons ready, but no Seafire XV's seen combat, 'as far as I know'.

As for numbers etc, will dig them up, it was basically an L III with a Griffon motor.

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2006, 03:53:15 PM »

Seafire XV -
434 built - Westland (250) and Cunliffe Owen (184)

1750HP Griffon VI
Seafire L III wings.
Rear fuselage from the Spit VIII.
Fwd fuselage from the XII

First unit got them May 1945 - 802 sqn

I believe the 4 sqns with Seafire IIc's at the end of the war were converting to XV's.

Debonair · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2006, 12:49:55 AM »

There is a good book by a RN seafire pilot, They Gave Me a Seafire, who was in combat in the last stages of the war on Japan. A lot of info about the mid & later stages of Seafire development in that book...

Jester · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2006, 07:58:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Debonair
There is a good book by a RN seafire pilot, They Gave Me a Seafire, who was in combat in the last stages of the war on Japan. A lot of info about the mid & later stages of Seafire development in that book...

Tks Debonair, I have seen this book advertised - I will see if I can track it down.

Tks also Kev for the specs and info on the Seafire.

!

Kev367th · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2006, 01:50:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jester
Thanks for the info Kev. (Also the pic for the collection!)

!

Found you a real sweet pic -

Seafire L III's onboard HMS Hunter, note they are all clipped.

Quite a few more here

http://www.ivyandmartin.demon.co.uk/seafire.htm

Angus · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2006, 04:06:55 AM »

So much for the theory that no Seafires were clipped, lol.
(Was on these boards long ago)
Anyway:
"There is a good book by a RN seafire pilot, They Gave Me a Seafire, who was in combat in the last stages of the war on Japan. A lot of info about the mid & later stages of Seafire development in that book..."
I'll buy it !!!! Saw it in the shelves of Foyle's I think and skipped it for something else, awww.
http://www.foyles.com
Lots of books.
Particularly interesting that there were also RN aircraft at Iwo and Okinawa. Never heard that before.
Kev, do you have any data on claims and such?

Angus · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2006, 04:08:56 AM »

Here:

Hope it works.

Debonair · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2006, 04:45:18 AM »

theres a lot of other good books in that airlife classics series, one by an RAF nightfighter R/O, another by a typhoon driver & a good one by an RAF PRU Hurricane S/L in North Africa called Messerschmit Roulette