Author Topic: Muslim group *demands* apology  (Read 1903 times)

Offline LePaul

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« on: April 25, 2006, 01:10:07 AM »
LOL, this is funnay...

Group Wants Prof Punished for Anti-Muslim E-Mail

Monday , April 24, 2006

LANSING, Michigan — An Islamic rights group on Monday urged Michigan State University to discipline an engineering professor for disparaging Muslims in an e-mail he sent to the school's Muslim Students' Association.

Indrek Wichman, a mechanical engineering professor, sent an e-mail to the student group Feb. 28 — apparently in response to its protests of controversial Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The students had labeled the cartoons as hate speech, not free speech.

Wichman, 50, wrote that he was protesting their protest and said he was not offended by cartoons but rather Muslims who commit suicide bombings, behead civilians, attack public buildings, burn Christian churches, kill Catholic priests in Turkey, rape Scandinavian girls and riot in France.

Wichman referred to Muslims as "dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems" and the protests as "infantile" in the e-mail. "If you do not like the values of the West . . . you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option."

Wichman declined to comment when contacted Monday by The Associated Press.

Dawud Walid, executive director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said Michigan State officials should publicly denounce Wichman's statements and conduct an investigation. The results of the probe should be made public, and Wichman should at least have a letter of reprimand placed in his file, Walid said.

The group also wants Wichman and other faculty to receive sensitivity training before the fall semester.

University spokesman Terry Denbow said the school would not publicly condemn Wichman's statements because they were private and did not represent the school in any way. But he added that Wichman has been advised to be careful in the future.

Offline SOB

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 01:16:30 AM »
Good for the University.  He's there teaching adult students who can decide for themselves what they think of his statement.
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Offline Vudak

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 01:29:09 AM »
"It's a rare thing these days to think what one likes and say what one thinks" - Tacitus (think I got it basically right).

We were having a discussion about how arabs and moslems discovered many of the old Roman texts and kept them alive, by studying them through the dark ages today in class.  I suggested that we should thank them kindly, and return the books so they can start reading them again.  It did not go over well.

I will maintain, however, that the day one charismatic moslem reads a few books about MLK jr. and Ghandi, will be the day that things like a free Palestine, etc., will start to become realities.

I agree with that professor.  I hope he gets a raise.
Vudak
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Offline VOR

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 02:16:31 AM »
I agree with him too, but the sword cuts both ways. Rightie politics don't have a place in universities any more than leftie politics do. If the guy sent a private email to this group, then fine. It's his right. If he's using his podium to "teach" this sort of thing in an engineering classroom, can him. I'd expect no more or less if he were some burned out hippie with a receding hair line, ponytail and reeking of marijuana.

Offline eagl

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 07:03:44 AM »
Don't they know what happens to people who *demand* things?  Didn't they watch Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?  Remember the brat who kept demanding stuff from her dad?  And look where she ended up, down the chute to the bad egg incinerator.

We have bad egg incinerators in stock...
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Jackal1

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 07:51:39 AM »
I`m expecting a protest to protest the protesting from the protesters. :D

Quote
"If you do not like the values of the West . . . you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option."


Get some prof.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Vudak

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2006, 09:02:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
I agree with him too, but the sword cuts both ways. Rightie politics don't have a place in universities any more than leftie politics do. If the guy sent a private email to this group, then fine. It's his right. If he's using his podium to "teach" this sort of thing in an engineering classroom, can him. I'd expect no more or less if he were some burned out hippie with a receding hair line, ponytail and reeking of marijuana.



True, it'd be a bit strange to hear about politics (at least these kind) in an engineering class, but this was a private letter.  And really, the message to kids that their protest is ridiculous is spot on, because all the anger over a silly cartoon is pretty ridiculous in the first place.

Still, if my university threw out every teacher who brought politics in from time to time, there'd be no one left to teach.  I don't think there's any reason a teacher should be fired or fined for bringing politics into the class unless it either is completely distracting from the topic at hand (as I'd imagine engineering would be), or if they in turn black list students for disagreeing.  In a few classes, (history, sociology, geography, etc.), it can be interesting to compare/contrast politics, and is probably beneficial to do so.  Just so long as both sides can be heard without fear of a poor mark, and so long as the teacher will occassionally play devils advocate for the side that's not getting much student support.

Edit - I'm talking college level here.
Vudak
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Offline FiLtH

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 10:29:33 AM »
"Dahdy..you're auuullways making things difficult!" -Veruca Salt

~AoM~

Offline Seagoon

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2006, 12:56:15 PM »
Hello VOR,

Quote
Originally posted by VOR
I agree with him too, but the sword cuts both ways. Rightie politics don't have a place in universities any more than leftie politics do. If the guy sent a private email to this group, then fine. It's his right. If he's using his podium to "teach" this sort of thing in an engineering classroom, can him. I'd expect no more or less if he were some burned out hippie with a receding hair line, ponytail and reeking of marijuana.


Actually here's where the categories get confused, opposing Islam is not a "rightie" or a "leftie" issue. Technically, it's not political at all, and certainly the Danes are amongst the least likely people on the planet to be accused of having published the cartoons because they are "right-wing" or "conservative." In fact, a cogent argument could be advanced that they published the cartoons precisely because they are left-wing secular humanists opposed to the concept that any religion should be protected from ridicule or criticism by blasphemy laws ,or even that there really is such a thing as "blasphemy."

Our problem in the West is that we have whole-heartedly embraced the Marxist idea that all of life is a "political struggle" and consequently whether we are conservative or liberal we tend to want to frame any controversy or struggle in political terms. So curiously while Islam is one of the most conservative religions on earth, and European liberals increasingly see it as the religious counterpart to facism, to oppose it, or to speak against it is seen as a "conservative response" especially here in America.

There are reasons for that of course, two in particular stand out. First, Islam is seen as a "third-world" religion and therefore automatically a religion of the oppressed. Those who are oppressed and exploited by the forces of colonialism and captialism are normally always favored by leftists, who expect them to be brothers in the political arena. Unfortunately, this is where the cognitive dissonance really sets in, the idea that thirdworlders would be in favor of a system that desires to oppress others and establish a world-wide theocracy, with an unchanging theocratic legal code, ruled by a single Caliph,  that would outlaw all political movements including Communism simply doesn't compute. So often they end up supporting a movement that ultimately wants to eliminate their worldview. Second, Islam is patently not Christianity, therefore it would normally be accorded favored status in that it is not the religion of the perceived Western oppressors, regardless of the actual content of the religion. Curiously, this reasoning also has led the left to support ancient Aztec religion, which at its center exalted monarchs to god-like status and involved the royalty and the priesthood cutting the hearts out of living sacrifices in order to placate angry gods.

What we need to be able to do is think in terms of ideologies and worldviews that involve, but transcend politics. For instance, Islam has some very definite ideas about what should happen to politics, but it is actually a comprehensive world and life view that addresses every aspect of human existence and so we need to ask not is it left or right, but the more basic question "can we coexist with Islam on their terms?" (not ours, because Islam presupposes that their terms will prevail and works to that end as a goal).

But I digress. All of that is to say, this isn't really about a prof. teaching politics. The real question is, should a prof. be allowed to tell a Muslim students group what he thinks of their worldview? I believe the answer to that is unquestionably, yes. A prof. should also be allowed to tell the Baptist Students Union or the Bi, Gay, Lesbian, Transexual, Student association the same thing. Anyone on Campus should be. This is not a question of partisan politics it is a question of worldview and freedom of speech. Let the Islamic rights group have its way in this case, and you are actually allowing them free-speech while muzzling all other speech, and tacitly accepting the agenda their ideology is promoting.

- SEAGOON
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 12:59:19 PM by Seagoon »
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Yeager

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2006, 01:18:27 PM »
Any american muslim that advocates the violant overthrow of the government of the United States of America should be immediately sent to the Gitmo.

Any muslim residing in the United States that has a problem respecting the freedom of speech, be they american or visa holders, should have their citizenship revoked and be deported, never allowed to return.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline boxboy28

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 04:04:46 PM »
This makes me proud to be a Spartan, MSU alumni!   LOL we all know its not because of our sports teams!
^"^Nazgul^"^    fly with the undead!
Jaxxo got nice tata's  and Lyric is Andre the giant with blond hair!

Offline Shuckins

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 04:58:52 PM »
The demands from his colleagues that he be reprimanded and get "sensitivity training" are proof that Winston Churchill's "Boneless Wonder" found a way to reproduce.

Offline Vudak

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 06:11:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
The demands from his colleagues that he be reprimanded and get "sensitivity training" are proof that Winston Churchill's "Boneless Wonder" found a way to reproduce.


What is this?  I've never heard of it? :confused:
Vudak
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Offline Shuckins

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 09:22:27 PM »
Vudak,

I've heard a couple of different tales about when and where Churchill first used this anecdote.  Evidently, it began as part of one ofhis innumerable harangues against a gutless House of Commons and its leadership (specifically Ramsay MacDonald.)

Anyway, it goes like this:

"I remember when i was a child, being taken to the celebrated Barnum's circus, which contained an exhibition of freaks and monstrosities, but the exhibition on the program which I most desired to see was the one described as "The Boneless Wonder."  My parents judged that the spectacle would be too demoralizing and revolting for my youthful eye, and I have waited fifty years, to see The Boneless Wonder sitting on the Treasury Board..

...(alternate ending) I have waited fifty years to find the House of Commons filled with the monstrosities...behold the Boneless Wonders!

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Vudak

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Muslim group *demands* apology
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 11:13:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Vudak,

I've heard a couple of different tales about when and where Churchill first used this anecdote.  Evidently, it began as part of one ofhis innumerable harangues against a gutless House of Commons and its leadership (specifically Ramsay MacDonald.)

Anyway, it goes like this:

"I remember when i was a child, being taken to the celebrated Barnum's circus, which contained an exhibition of freaks and monstrosities, but the exhibition on the program which I most desired to see was the one described as "The Boneless Wonder."  My parents judged that the spectacle would be too demoralizing and revolting for my youthful eye, and I have waited fifty years, to see The Boneless Wonder sitting on the Treasury Board..

...(alternate ending) I have waited fifty years to find the House of Commons filled with the monstrosities...behold the Boneless Wonders!

Regards, Shuckins


Truly the best Brit ever :aok  (being part American probably helped :) )
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group