Time to Un-Perk the Hogs?

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Bronk
bkbandit when you learn how to read other peoples posts I'll add . But you just proved you don't with your latest.

HT could relabel the XVI  to the LF IX.  The only real diff is the XVI has two .50 cal , and the LF IX has four .303 cal.

Now try reading this slowly and think before you repost.
Also if HT was to perk the XVI ,you'd be here in less than a week wanting to perk the VIII.
Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.



WOW if Mr Mitchel only new how much of a monster he made.

Bronk

Slight correction -

He could re-label it an LF IXe and there would be NO difference.

Only difference between the XVI and the 1943 LF IXc is the 50s in place of the .303s.

As for the VIII v XVI - Bear in mind the VIII is heavier, 2 extra wing tanks as the XIV, but has a retractible tailwheel, and has a full span wing.
So although they both use a Merlin 66 there will be differences in performance, but it's not much.

[Karnak]

bkbandit,

That "wep that powers it around turns" is exactly the same wep that powers the Spitfire Mk VIII.

Exactly the same.

You do not seem to understand that.  The differences you are feeling, other than roll rate, are in your head and not really there.

[gripen]

Well, according to speed chart giving the 21k FTH in the HTC homepage, the AH XVI is actually a LF IX with Merlin 66. The real XVI had the Merlin 266 ie basicly the same engine as the V-1650-7 which had higher 2nd speed gearing than the Merlin 66, 1st gearing being roughly same. The 2nd FTH should be around 22-23k for the XVI.

gripen

[Kev367th]

There was about a 1k difference in FTH between an American Merlin 266 and Rolls Royce Merlin 66.
Its not any faster, nor does it roll faster, or climb faster.
The Merlin 66 makes it's best speed 1k lower than the Merlin 266 (21k vs 22k), but top speed is still the same.
No biggie.

[bkbandit]

If its the "same" why arent they being flown.  I only see 16s.  If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s.  U act lie i dont fight this these things.  The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm.  If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them.  I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot.  A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires.  This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s.  Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.  

I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are goin to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho.  Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by bkbandit
If its the "same" why arent they being flown.  I only see 16s.  If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s.  U act lie i dont fight this these things.  The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm.  If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them.  I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot.  A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires.  This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s.  Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.  

I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are going to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho.  Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.

Because people think that the higher the number the better the plane is.
That's human nature, instead of whine try the VIII and the XVI. You will see that the both Mks are quite deadly.
 Also if you want to see a truly deadly early Mk check out the Mk. XII.
Also the plane has nothing to do with it Levi can kill most people 1v1 with a val. If ya don't believe check out his post in the freeplayer.  The val film is exquisite


Bronk

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by bkbandit
If its the "same" why arent they being flown.  I only see 16s.  If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s.  U act lie i dont fight this these things.  The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm.  If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them.  I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot.  A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires.  This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s.  Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.  

I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are goin to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho.  Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.

BIG difference is the XVI's roll rate, it's way better than the VIII.
Plus as said XVI is higher than VIII so people assume its a much higher performers.
Not a lot take the IX as it's a high alt bird compared to the XVI and VIII, and the Vb was neutered (1/2 ammo, less boost) compared to the 'old' Vc.
Seafires you usually only see off a CV.

Always said if they unperked the XIV you probably still see more XVI's as for the newbie XVI is higher than XIV, without knowing the XIV is a Griffon Spit.

Your argument of perk all 4 cannon planes doesn't add up. Why perk a mid war Hurri IIc?
Whats next? Any plane that can go faster than 400mph, followed by all planes with a climb rate of 3500fpm or better?
Where does it end?

[DoKGonZo]

The roll rate is what makes the 16 so attractive. Once you add that the Spit16 is pretty much without weaknesses, save for high-speed dive and lack of armor.

What I'd really like to see is what happened if for just one tour the F4U-4 was brought down to 5 perks. I'm betting there'd be only a small impact on what planes get used, other than for more experienced players who don't rely on the overwhelming firepower of quad-Hispanos.

[bkbandit]

ALL the spits are great gun platforms. Bronk i have flown all of them.  I have flown 9 and 16 back to back agaisnt 109s and 190s.  ANd since this thread i mess around with it alittle more.  The16 feels so much liter(even with full fuel, and even when i forget to drop my ord).  I prefer the gun package on the 9 but the agility is a big thing that comes into play when picking.  Yes they are "similar" but a spitfire is a spitfire whether its 5 9 16 etc(only big problem with the mk1 is the engine turns off in the dive).  BUt the 16 has an upper hand.  If the 8 and 16 were so similar as u say people would fly them more, the 8 has a better gun package then the spit16, 2 solo 50 cals are really useless and on top of that u only have 500 rounds.  I have flown the 12 and i like it.  It doesnt break under high g as fast as the 16.  If its perked guys went be in the cold, they have a stable of very good aircarft waiting, it just wont be point and click.  A spit 9 or 12 will still smack a 109 or nik.  Bronk i have tryed all of them, the 16 will get away with things that the others will die trying to do.  It doesnt mean the other spits are bad it just make 16 pilots more careless and alittle brain dead.  U can tell when a guy just got out of a spit16 and is tryin to learn another plane.

That val is a real sleeper, people dont see much of it so they just jump in behind and turn with it, they get slow and lose.  U have to fight him like he was a zero.  They arent fast but there slow turn rate is something else.  Just have to stay fast and a zal or zero cant hurt u.  ALot of guys that fight zeros forget that the zero  is the slowest plane in the game, these bucnh of guys that forget make those zero guys happy.

F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks.  Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it.  The hurr is a ho machine period.  U would be better of making the d hurri with those aaa guns free then the hurri c.  Isnt this the reason they perked c hog? Give me a breeak i dont care is it came out before ww2 started or if it came out a day before it ended.  The give credit to the hurri and nik pilots because at least they will fight u, the typo guy will either go for the ho or run, la7 is another one.  Litely perk them so u dont have ho machines.  5 perks thats all.  The chog is 15  and i pay it and take it out for a fun ride now and then but i dont need to rely on the cannons to take cons down.  I go from 6 50s to hispanos and its crazy, i point it at anything and it dies.  With all the cannon planes running around(for free) it makes all the other gun packages look like crap.  I heard a guy say "the guns on the p47 suck, it dont have cannons like my typo".  Cmon, 8 50s knock things out cold, i have sawed cons in half with them(spit 16s dont stand a chance agaisnt a hard snap shot). If they didnt ho everything in site i wouldnt care.  BUt i seen too many guys just ho and blow up, its funny but at the same time its stupid.

[SuperDud]

I fly the 8 when I don't take the KI. I feel it's a bit more of a pure dogfighter in than the 16. That's probably more of a personnal preference though. Next to the seafire, IMO I feel the 8 is the closest thing to the ol spit5.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by bkbandit
...

F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks.  Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it.  
....

Exactly ... so why not do it.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by bkbandit
ALL the spits are great gun platforms. Bronk i have flown all of them.  I have flown 9 and 16 back to back agaisnt 109s and 190s.  ANd since this thread i mess around with it alittle more.  The16 feels so much liter(even with full fuel, and even when i forget to drop my ord).  I prefer the gun package on the 9 but the agility is a big thing that comes into play when picking.  Yes they are "similar" but a spitfire is a spitfire whether its 5 9 16 etc(only big problem with the mk1 is the engine turns off in the dive).  BUt the 16 has an upper hand.  If the 8 and 16 were so similar as u say people would fly them more, the 8 has a better gun package then the spit16, 2 solo 50 cals are really useless and on top of that u only have 500 rounds.  I have flown the 12 and i like it.  It doesnt break under high g as fast as the 16.  If its perked guys went be in the cold, they have a stable of very good aircarft waiting, it just wont be point and click.  A spit 9 or 12 will still smack a 109 or nik.  Bronk i have tryed all of them, the 16 will get away with things that the others will die trying to do.  It doesnt mean the other spits are bad it just make 16 pilots more careless and alittle brain dead.  U can tell when a guy just got out of a spit16 and is tryin to learn another plane.

That val is a real sleeper, people dont see much of it so they just jump in behind and turn with it, they get slow and lose.  U have to fight him like he was a zero.  They arent fast but there slow turn rate is something else.  Just have to stay fast and a zal or zero cant hurt u.  ALot of guys that fight zeros forget that the zero  is the slowest plane in the game, these bucnh of guys that forget make those zero guys happy.

F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks.  Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it.  The hurr is a ho machine period.  U would be better of making the d hurri with those aaa guns free then the hurri c.  Isnt this the reason they perked c hog? Give me a breeak i dont care is it came out before ww2 started or if it came out a day before it ended.  The give credit to the hurri and nik pilots because at least they will fight u, the typo guy will either go for the ho or run, la7 is another one.  Litely perk them so u dont have ho machines.  5 perks thats all.  The chog is 15  and i pay it and take it out for a fun ride now and then but i dont need to rely on the cannons to take cons down.  I go from 6 50s to hispanos and its crazy, i point it at anything and it dies.  With all the cannon planes running around(for free) it makes all the other gun packages look like crap.  I heard a guy say "the guns on the p47 suck, it dont have cannons like my typo".  Cmon, 8 50s knock things out cold, i have sawed cons in half with them(spit 16s dont stand a chance agaisnt a hard snap shot). If they didnt ho everything in site i wouldnt care.  BUt i seen too many guys just ho and blow up, its funny but at the same time its stupid.

First I'm confused - We don't have 12 (XII), but we do have a perked 14 (XIV).

Second - The Hurri IId was an anti tank version, hence the 2x40mms, and is already free.
You can bet that the average pilot is flying something a lot faster than a IIc, but doesn't have the patience to work a '6' shot.

Third - Saying the 4 cannons planes ho, then forgetting so does EVERY other plane also.
How about 2 or 3 tours back some idot tried to ho my IL2 with a Tempest (hee hee), that mean the IL2 should be perked also.

If by your argument you were to perk every hoing plane, we'd have nothing left.

Fianlly - Reason F4U-1C was perked : It accounted for over 20% of the MA kills, I think Spit XVI's are currently around 10%-12%.
In other words you were twice as likely to see a F4U-1C (before perking) than you are to see Spit XVI in the current MA.
Yet you complain about ALL the XVI, imagine twice as many hoing 4C's?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Kev367th
...

If by your argument you were to perk every hoing plane, we'd have nothing left.

No ... we'd have the Val ... which should be perked anyway because it am be teh l33t turning masheen.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Fianlly - Reason F4U-1C was perked : It accounted for over 20% of the MA kills, I think Spit XVI's are currently around 10%-12%.

Actually, less than that.  Removing all bombers, vehicles and ships gunns, the Spit XVI accounted for 9.3% of fighter kills in May, the LA-7 8.9%.  They also accounted for 9.6% of all fighter deaths, vs 8.0% of the LA-7.  The inability to run obviously hampers them vs the LA-7.

Kills and deaths are not the same as sorties, but should be close.  People perceive them to be more numberous than they truely are.  "Half the planes are spits and the other half LAs" is the complaint I keep hearing, but more than 4 of 5 fighters you see have to be something else according to the numbers.

[Saxman]

Run a comparison on Dok's charts. Honestly, do you all REALLY want to see the F4U-4 at the same perk cost as the 1C?