Author Topic: Time to Un-Perk the Hogs?  (Read 5453 times)

Offline bozon

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Time to Un-Perk the Hogs?
« Reply #135 on: June 06, 2006, 05:04:45 AM »
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And yeah, considering we have an unperked P-47N... Unperk the Ta-152. I mean, at least the P-47N is viable at lower altitudes.

At sea level the P47D40 is superior to the N. It is even slightly faster without WEP. The only thing the N has going for it in MA condition is a monster WEP. You get 5 min of rocket boost (that you really really need) and after that you are a slow, worst climbing plane around.

Even gun lethality seems reduced since in the modified wings, the gund are even farther out. You can almost fit an entire 109 between P47N guns.

Most players don't realize this and take the N as a JABO. The D40 will carry the same load, climb faster and reach the target faster. The N will be better at running away after the drop if it saved his WEP (and climbed like a B17).

Still, I'd like to see the N perked on being a very late war bird. 5 points will be enough to make the Ds the more representing models.

Bozon
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Offline Souless

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« Reply #136 on: June 06, 2006, 11:16:55 AM »
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Originally posted by Widewing
The current F4U-4 literally will fly circles around a Tempest. Don't even think about turn fighting one if you're in a Tempest. Likewise, the F4U-4 turns better than the F4U-1C. Moreover, it is vastly superior to the other Corsairs in the vertical.

Turn radius / Turn rate in degrees per second

F4U-4: 428 feet / 19.7

Tempest: 518 feet / 18.8

No contest.....

My regards,

Widewing


I couldnt agree more widewing it is the best plane overall in the planeset

Offline bkbandit

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« Reply #137 on: June 06, 2006, 09:42:56 PM »
I still think the cost of the f4u4 is still alittle too much.  It has alot of great attributes but nobody wants to pay anything above15 for a plane with no cannons.  Those rubber bullets episodes make life alitle harder when it comes to the .50 calibre mgs.

I like the p47d better then the n,  the d has somethin that makes life alot easier that the n doesnt have, those dive flaps.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #138 on: June 06, 2006, 09:50:10 PM »
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Originally posted by bozon
At sea level the P47D40 is superior to the N. It is even slightly faster without WEP. The only thing the N has going for it in MA condition is a monster WEP. You get 5 min of rocket boost (that you really really need) and after that you are a slow, worst climbing plane around.



Bozon



This might be do to the fact that the N fuel load is so large.
If you take same time duration not % carried the N should be much better.



Bronk
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Offline bkbandit

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« Reply #139 on: June 18, 2006, 11:17:42 PM »
I cant let this die for some reason.  I just got out of m/a.  I fought a f4u4 with a p51d. Couple of turns and he dives and runs, i dived after him and chased him down and had him pressin o for the chute. When u compare the p51d and f4u4 the f4u4 isnt much better(but it is still better).  U have a great roll rate with the f4u4, more ammo, u can carry 2 more rockets, and it is a touch faster. The p51d has a better rear view and the flaps come down at a higher speed. BUt in a fight mustang isnt out classed, i figured i wouldnt be able to catch him in a drag race but i did. Yea the fight stood at a meduim to fast speed and i was on him tight but if the fight would have slown down he would have got me.

THe 51d is free along with alot of cannon birds, a free f4u4 wont hurt nothin. I doubt anybody other then the hardcore f4u4 guys would fly it. The cannon crowd wont give it a second look. MAybe the tnb guys would complain but anythin that is faster then them they want killed off. The f4u1c has to stay perked, the cannon crowd has enuff planes.

Im sorry if im dragin this out.

Offline bozon

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« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2006, 04:35:32 AM »
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Originally posted by Bronk
This might be do to the fact that the N fuel load is so large.
If you take same time duration not % carried the N should be much better.
 

50% in the N is very close to 75% in the D40/25. With that fuel load, the N climbs worse without WEP and is not faster. The full power is 52" MAP in the D25/40 and 54" in the N. With that ratings, the engines produce nearly the same power but the N is heavier and might be slightly draggier due to the larger wings. So it perform worse and eats more gas...

End result is that the N is the worst climbing P47 without WEP - about the same as D11 . About the speed, I need to test it again myself but according to all the tests published in this forum it is also slower.

My only wonder is if the P47N no-wep engine rating is correct. I assume it is unless I find other data.

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2006, 08:46:44 AM »
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I cant let this die for some reason.  I just got out of m/a.  I fought a f4u4 with a p51d. Couple of turns and he dives and runs, i dived after him and chased him down and had him pressin o for the chute. When u compare the p51d and f4u4 the f4u4 isnt much better(but it is still better).  U have a great roll rate with the f4u4, more ammo, u can carry 2 more rockets, and it is a touch faster. The p51d has a better rear view and the flaps come down at a higher speed. BUt in a fight mustang isnt out classed, i figured i wouldnt be able to catch him in a drag race but i did. Yea the fight stood at a meduim to fast speed and i was on him tight but if the fight would have slown down he would have got me.


Actually, if the fight had slowed down, you'd have got him worse.  The F4U-4 out-turns the P-51D by a significant margin, especially when slow.  It has a smaller circle, and gets around that circle faster.  In addition, it climbs and accelerates better.

Quote
Originally posted by bkbandit

THe 51d is free along with alot of cannon birds, a free f4u4 wont hurt nothin. I doubt anybody other then the hardcore f4u4 guys would fly it. The cannon crowd wont give it a second look. MAybe the tnb guys would complain but anythin that is faster then them they want killed off. The f4u1c has to stay perked, the cannon crowd has enuff planes.

Im sorry if im dragin this out.


I agree with your argument, but your reasoning is flawed, in my opinion.  I think quite a few people would end up flying the F4U-4 because it really is quite a nice airplane.  I prefer the Spit 14 personally.

Offline bkbandit

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« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2006, 10:57:20 PM »
When u the things that makes the f4u1d feel slow is the fact that theres in wind in m/a. a 10mph breeze makes it feel like a animal and the f4u4 is just retarded. THere is WIND in the real word, with wind u could prob take off with a fully loaded corsair(turn the cv into the wind like ur supposed to). Corsair kinda heavy, but she cant be that sluggish. I fought a f4u4 wit my f4u1d today, he was in trouble but then has friend in a 205 came around and i had to get off him. F4u4 is great but its not a point and click spit16, u have to handle with experience and care(i have been into the corsair hardcore for 2 months now and have been very successful, but i still need alot more time). I noe the suggestion to add weather has been posted before but i feel we need it, this game really is startin to feel more and more like a arcade game and less like a sim.

I noe the f4u4 out turns 51d but at high speeds there either even or 51d does better. And for the most part both of these planes r hot rods, u want to be fast in them. THe f4u4 isnt really the plane of choice to do tnb fightin. F4U4 is more agile and a touch faster then 51d but mustang can hang  with the f4u4. Not much seperates them. The only bad thing about unperkin the f4u4 would be that f4u1d would be out of a job.

I dont like the p47n, it isnt much of a upgrade. Yes alot more fuel but thats it, it goes faster yes, but it does this half way to the moon at 30k, then then u have to burn out all ur wep to get it. u want a solid high alt speed demon i say 51d. The 47n doesnt have dive flaps, and thats the real reason i dont fly it. when i throw that nose down and dive bomb those dive flaps keep me in control.

Offline bkbandit

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« Reply #143 on: June 20, 2006, 02:23:58 AM »
jez the la7 can do 400mph pretty much on the deck. for the type of fightin in m/a the la7 and the spit 16 are the best, i dont care if people want to give the noobs a break, all it creates is horrible pilots that cant kill unless they ho u,jump u with 4 other planes or vulch. Then the game becomes stale. If im level wit a con the first move i always make is the move to avoid the ho. Unless u have a turn and burn plane the la7 will dominate on the deck, why is it free. why am i payin for f4u4. Again i just came out of m/a, i had a seaspit, i was in the thick of it, i got 2 niks and a la7 that was tailin a friendly, i started to leave because i was the only one around so i break out towards the water, i get out there and look back and 4 la7s, give me a break. f4u4 is good(and in real life alot of people say it was better then the 51d, i have read this at many sites) but in the m/a it lacks. Hoers vulchers out number the real good dogfighters. Never Never Never again do i ever want to here runstang because when the heat is on la7s run noein that anybody can catch them.

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #144 on: June 20, 2006, 03:11:52 AM »
Took up an F4U4 tonight for a spin, flew it somewhat smart, somewhat stupid, but as long as I had a room I didn't have a problem.  Was able to chase down a 38 on the deck, with his buddies locked on behind me, follow him up for his rope, shoot him down, manage a quick diving reversal, roll around a HO or two, and haul *** outta there.  ~20 perks is just fine for that sort of performance, IMO.

You also have to consider the fact that in any Corsair, you've got more options then many planes offer.  You can stall fight, you can BnZ, energy, hang on flaps, drop gear and get slow FAST for a reversal or even just scissors, float around slower then just about anything else can go and still be in complete control, yada yada yada.  The F4U4 even gives you one more option - the ability to at least run far enough for the five darn spits following the Lala to give up.  Once that happens, the Lala dies :)
Vudak
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Offline Warspawn

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« Reply #145 on: June 20, 2006, 05:51:47 AM »
The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.

I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me.  It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.

Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.
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Offline Oleg

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Time to Un-Perk the Hogs?
« Reply #146 on: June 20, 2006, 08:12:47 AM »
Purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes. If loosing that perks will hurt you, may be you must fly another plane instead asking to make it less costly.

F4U-4 worth his perks.
And Tempest cost 2 or 3 times more.
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Offline Urchin

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« Reply #147 on: June 20, 2006, 10:05:51 AM »
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Originally posted by Warspawn
The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.

I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me.  It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.

Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.


Yea, you would.  The TA-152 still attracts attention like that, and I think it is only a couple points now.  It is still worthless, perked or not.

Offline Warspawn

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« Reply #148 on: June 20, 2006, 04:24:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Oleg
Purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes. If loosing that perks will hurt you, may be you must fly another plane instead asking to make it less costly.

F4U-4 worth his perks.
And Tempest cost 2 or 3 times more.


You're right Oleg!  I really don't care about the perks; I'm sure most of the folks posting here have a couple thousand banked.  Sorry 'bout my mistake there.


Hmm... "purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes".  Maybe it is time to make it cost a small amount to ride the LA-7 and Spit XVI?  I like the idea of a rolling plane set better, with the late-war rides comming into play as the arena map matures; perhaps with the 'losing' side getting their set advanced more quickly.
Purple haze all in my brain
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Actin' funny, but I don't know why

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Offline moneyguy

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« Reply #149 on: June 20, 2006, 07:31:18 PM »
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Originally posted by Warspawn
The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.

I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me.  It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.

Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.




hmmmm....i seem to remember this happening almost everytime i bring a goon near bad guys. and goons aren't perked   :confused: