Collisions and Kill Shooting

[Hoarach]

The thing that really irks me is those that purposely try to ram.  I try avoiding ram last night, a guy pulls up into my plane to purposely ram and I die and he flies away like nothing happened.

[hubsonfire]

Purposely ramming is difficult enough that it is not feasible in a dog fight unless you're trying to get shot in the process. It seems a lot of folks confuse intentionally inducing a collision with their refusal to take evasive action prior to it.

[Brenjen]

Did you bother to read the link I gave you Pthom? It explains it very well.

[Phtom]

Yes I read it Brenjen.  And I understand net lags.
But according to Oleg if you get a "XX has collided with you" message then you were shot with guns   As long as you didn't get the "You have collided" message.

Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage.  Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die.  That's okay too.

[Brenjen]

OK, but it explains the FE too, & that's just as important or more than the Lag portion.

 Your P/C decides if you collide.

 Your opponents P/C decides if he collides.

 If you see the white message saying "XXXX has collided with you" but you died, then...he shot you. The positional info just generated the message because you were both in the same spot at the same time on ONE of the FE's (your opponents).

 If you see "you have collided" your FE has determined you were in the same spot at the same time & hit the other guy, you are assigned damage according to what your FE saw (it could be minor), if you were pulling the trigger at the same time...then your opponent might see "XXXX has collided with you" while he is going down scratching his head.

 If you read the net lag article where it explains the FE & lag then this should make perfect sense, the only thing the net lag article didn't explain was the color coded text buffer messages, white like the P.M. is one FE to another or one P/C to another if that makes more sense, so the white message is his FE or yours sending the message.

 So..to recap, if you got the white message "XXXX has collided with you" but it was YOU who died, he was firing his weapons & that is what killed you. He may not have seemed damaged from that collision, but he probably was, even if it was minor. His FE decided what he hit & how much damage to assign to his plane.

 Heck, factor in lag & it gets really complicated with smooting codes & what not.

[hubsonfire]

AFAIK, anyone who collides will take some amount of damage. Not always serious, but you will take some. I've seen everything from instant explosions to just losing tailwheels. The guy who gets the orange message (the one whose system decides the 2 planes occupied the same space) will be damaged, but being able to fly away from a collision is entirely possible.

Also, I have to disagree with the remark on slower systems using this as an advantage. That's a misconception that is thrown around a lot on here, and I've yet to see proof of that being advantageous. I have one an older system with a slow connection, and it's just no advantage whatsoever.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
AFAIK, anyone who collides will take some amount of damage. Not always serious, but you will take some. I've seen everything from instant explosions to just losing tailwheels. The guy who gets the orange message (the one whose system decides the 2 planes occupied the same space) will be damaged, but being able to fly away from a collision is entirely possible.

Also, I have to disagree with the remark on slower systems using this as an advantage. That's a misconception that is thrown around a lot on here, and I've yet to see proof of that being advantageous. I have one an older system with a slow connection, and it's just no advantage whatsoever.

Another possible factor?

From talking to Skuzzy the new planes didn't just get a visual model overhaul, they have improved damage models also.

Something I'd like to try sometime in the D.A.

Two old models flying nose to nose through each other.
Two new models flying nose to nose through each other.
One old and one new model flying nose to nose through each other.

Do it with two people with approx same ping times, then also do it for a low ping and a high ping player.

See what results we get.

I get an average ping of 47ms.

[hubsonfire]

I had thought the visual depiction of the damage was updated, but not the actual damage system itself. I still see only the basics: fluid leaks, fires, pilot wounds, damaged guns, shot off flaps, control surfaces, gear, and wingtips.

Are there additional or different types of damage now?

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I had thought the visual depiction of the damage was updated, but not the actual damage system itself. I still see only the basics: fluid leaks, fires, pilot wounds, damaged guns, shot off flaps, control surfaces, gear, and wingtips.

Are there additional or different types of damage now?

Dunno, he just said the damage model itself was improved.

I had mentioned that if you de-ack a field with an F6-F the first ack hit on you usually (by a large margin) takes out the same gun on the same wing.

He said it was quite possible as they were old models, and that the new ones had improved damage models.

Tiffy is the same - IF (big if) you survive a collision you lose the same gun, on the same wing, the overwhelming majority of the time. Yet again one of the older models.

[GlacierGirl]

Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.

Yes both should die:t  I have a video of me colliding with somebody I paused it right on contact and My wing is cutting right through the other guys wing slicing his plane in half and my plane gets away Absolutely No Damage. Now if you think there is nothing wrong with the damage modle you are wrong. In real life I highly doubt that 2 planes going head on at a combined 500mph and side swiping each other would survive. their planes should be in pieces.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GlacierGirl
Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.

False.

Connection speed has no effect at all.

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Phtom
Yes I read it Brenjen.  And I understand net lags.
But according to Oleg if you get a "XX has collided with you" message then you were shot with guns   As long as you didn't get the "You have collided" message.

Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage.  Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die.  That's okay too.

Maybe he DID get damage, just not mortally wounded..... he might have been missing a flap or rudder or aileron or elv or guns or all of the above. Hed still have been pefectly able to land his plane.




I do not think ramming can be used on purpose with any higher % of success.... no matter the connect speed.

[Phtom]

I'm not being argumetative (hope its not taken that way), but I have not spent any time with networking so my question is:

How could connection speed NOT have anything to do with collisions?  If both computers are dealing with the same server at different speeds, wouldn't the faster connection pick up the other plane in the same spot faster and immediately produce the collision?  Sorry for the question if its complete lamen, just seeking to understand

For the record I always try to avoid any collision and HO (usually I am in planes that don't favor HO's lol)
If I do collide...its because I dropped on a 6 too fast and hit their back end or I find I fly into a lot of plane pieces after shooting them

[KTM520guy]

Originally posted by Lye-El


Now if HT would act on the head on complaints and make them impossible

I would have to say that this is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Schatzi
Phtom, he probably just SHOT you then.

And BTW, what your front end "sees" regarding collision is not neccessarily exactly what you see on your monitor display either (human eye tends to have trouble with 80 fps).... so what looks like a very close call on your monitor might still be counted as "collision" by your FE - hence damage. [/QUOTE

sugest you set vsync to always on just before you fly in AH and then set it back to normal setting when done.

This will reduce your fps slightly BUT it will reduce the what you see ain't what you get problem.

Before I did the following I SEEMEd like I was getting about 1/2 a second delay between what I saw and what was.  People with newer, faster systems  AND DSL or cable SEEMED to have an advantage.  I was getting hit with face shots and such and the other guy wasn't even pointing at me.  I was manuvering but I was manuvering LATE.

I turn off everything I don't need for AH using FSautostart AND I set Vsync to ALWAYS ON just before I go into AH.  I was noticing some differences between what I saw and what the film recorded.  I suggest someone video their monitor and record film and compare them.  You may find they are slightly different.  Vsync was one of the problems. Connect also played a role.   Programs running in the background hurt me some too. No one problem was the full cause. It was all of em combined.

This has helped me considerabely.  Before I could fire and miss from dead 6 at 200 yds, because what I saw was not what the computer really saw.  there was lag between the cpu and the gpu.  Now I can hit defelctions shots and such.  I get on your dead 6 at 200 and you will very likely to go BOOM now!

My system is older.  Doesn't preform as well as it used to for AH.  AH has nearly outgrown my system.