Rockets & Ballistics

[Murdr]

Because you have yet to add something substanative.  Every post is sarcasm, but no substance as to why someone is in error.  If you're not going to explain why in one seconds time the acceleration of gravity is differet for a 30mm than it is for a .50, then I don't know what your trying to contribute.  I did not say that a cannon round, and a .50 round drop the same at 400 yards or any other distance.  I said that they would drop the same given the exact same amount of flight time given a reasonably level trajectory.  The difference in velocity would put them very far apart in distance, at a snapshot in time, but the vertical acceleration from gravity would be the same.  No matter how many times Ive said it, you seem to have a problem with it, but if you're not going to explain what the problem is then why bother to post other than to irritate?

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Murdr
Projectile drop over time is constant.  In other words, a .50 cal will "drop" the same as a 30mm in an equal amount of time.  Doesnt matter if you define drop as decent from a level trajectory, *or loss of rate of ascent.  It is still a product of the acceleration of gravity.  So what it comes down to is 'time of flight to target'.  That will depend on muzzle velocity minus the projectiles parasitic drag over time.

I clearly see velocity in this quote.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Dont get mad at me because you forgot to include velocity, and thought a bullet simply fell to the ground after it left the muzzle.

If you shoot the bullet horizontally it will hit the ground at the same time as a rock that was dropped from the same place.  

I would assume that for a gun to shoot at a target that is X yards away horizontally from you you'd need to elevate the gun barrel some, so it would take a little longer for the bullet to hit the ground.

[Morpheus]

Interesting, so bullets fall to the ground after they leave the muzzle. Thanks.

Btw, I'm not sure what trajectory has to do with a rock being dropped off a cliff. But when I figure that part out, I'll be sure to let you all know.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Interesting, so bullets fall to the ground after they leave the muzzle. Thanks.

Btw, I'm not sure what trajectory has to do with a rock being dropped off a cliff. But when I figure that part out, I'll be sure to let you all know.

He didn't say it would land at the same place morph, he said it would land at the same time and that is a fact.  Granted, in that time it is going to travel a few thousand feet down range.

The bullet will fall the same distance in the same amount of time as a rock dropped from the same height.  (assuming of course that it is fired exactly at horizontal to the ground... Point up a little and obviously its going to over come gravity for a while before beginning to fall - but you and everyone else here already know that...)

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Interesting, so bullets fall to the ground after they leave the muzzle. Thanks.

Btw, I'm not sure what trajectory has to do with a rock being dropped off a cliff. But when I figure that part out, I'll be sure to let you all know.

Not off of a cliff....gun barrel and rock are the came height above a perfectly flat and horizontal firing range.  No need to drop the rock off of a cliff at all.


HT want to drop in and school us?  Would like to read HT's example to describe this

[Elfie]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Considering the amount of technical discussion in this thread, I find it funny that none of you answered Phtom's relatively straightforward questions.

There really isnt a single answer for him Hub. Especially since every single gun has it's own ballistics. Murdr posted some info on the rockets, but as far as a chart for the guns in the game.....well your idea to use the .target command is probably his best option. He could use that to see how far rockets drop as well.

Phtom if you want to show the differences in ballistics in cannons and machine guns......in planes that have a mixed bag of weapons, fire the machine guns and cannons separately so you can illustrate the ballistics differences on your website.

Not to sure how the discussion got off on the physics tangent though.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Elfie

Not to sure how the discussion got off on the physics tangent though.

Fundamentally its a physics question - Thats how.

[Elfie]

I dont think Phtom was asking about the physics aspect though heh.

[hubsonfire]

He didn't ask for theories or formulas. He asked for a basic comparison of weapons, and their relative effectiveness. Despite all the theories and pursefighting, the best we could come up with was "experiment and take pictures."  

Theoretical knowledge and formulas are useless if you can't apply them to something, hence this thread has mostly been a waste of time, except for the few of us who will check his webpage later for the answers to the questions he asked us first. Absolutely silly.

[Elfie]

He just needs to take the screenshots Hub. There truly isnt an answer for him (at least not just one answer). What he wants to know cant really be answered unless he uses the .target command, unless.....someone else has already done this and made a graph of it.


He wants to know how much bullet drop will occur and the difference between cannons and machine guns (as far as point of impact for the rounds).....well......that depends on where your convergence is set. Each convergence setting will change the answer as well.

I too will visit his website and check things out when he is done.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
hence this thread has mostly been a waste of time, except for the few of us who will check his webpage later for the answers to the questions he asked us first. Absolutely silly.

You're never going to get rock solid answers to the question because of all the variables described in this thread...  And yes, its been silly, and most everyone is right to some degree.

Yeah, we all know that most guns are good to 500 yards, some slower heavier cannon rounds are like 300ish.  Beyond that, even the simple question descends into academics.   Is there any quantifiable benifit to knowing that gun type X goes 25 more yards before dropping an additional inch than Gun type Y?

In order to work it out, you need the muzzle velocity, the rate at which a specific projectile decelerates over time, and then you need the constants of gravity (meaning how much is my projectile accellerating toward the ground over time)... When the lines cross, you've got your absolute effective range.  And its utterly useless information.

Only HT knows how much detail is in the model.

The useful answer is, almost all guns are great out to 300 and very effective to 500.  Beyond that its a crap shoot.

It is further invalidated by the lead angles which get darn hard to figure out beyond about 500 anyhow.

Set the convergence to 275, and don't shoot till you can read the altimeter in the enemy cockpit...  Thats all anyone needs to know

[rv6]

Originally posted by Kurt
The bullet will fall the same distance in the same amount of time as a rock dropped from the same height.  (assuming of course that it is fired exactly at horizontal to the ground...

I saw "Mr. Wizard for Kids" show, years ago, and thought the theory was BS, but here's what he did for a visual.

Set a bowling ball on a horizontally level runner, with activator switch on launch end.  Somehow clipped another bowling ball hung under launch end.

Spring launches top bowling bowl down runner, as it passes end, bottom bowling ball releases.

BOTH hit ground same time.

He then did the same with a rifle in desert, bullet going horizontal, bowling ball straight down (how in hell he rigged the release I forgot? I was drunk when I saw this)..

Anyways.. you guessed it.  Bowling ball and bullet hit ground, SAME TIME!

(How'd he do dat?  Mirrors?)

RV6