Author Topic: 30mm sometimes duds? (Read 1616 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:50:11 PM »

hitech: But what if you see 5x 30mm flashes on the tail-section of a lancaster fuselage, and the tail doesn't fall off? That should be enough to blow any plane in half!

flatbar: Thanks, I could never remember. I turned it from "application specified" to "forced on". Much appreciated. But I never really have "rubber bullets" -- only with the 30mms, no other gun.

-pjk-- · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:58:07 PM »

So, 30mm flash is 100% hit.....

Time to start filming again, i have counted 11x30mm hits to Lanc, from nose to tail and no kill or visual damage

Or maybe it is ok to get 5-10 30 mm hits agasint lanc/b17 and it simply is not enought. B24`s at least get in flames about easy

30mm hit to fighter seems to work about nice, not 100% kill, but 85% is ok.

puujiikoo

Murdr · « **Reply #17 on:** June 16, 2006, 02:25:49 AM »

You mean something like this film? 37mm vs spit16 tail

stickpig · « **Reply #18 on:** June 16, 2006, 07:14:18 AM »

Link dosent work

Eagler · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2006, 07:34:27 AM »

maybe the rounds were produced in a chek or pole slave labor factory ..

I have read stories about rounds that failed to go off and when examined they contained a note explaining "that is all we can do now"

Schatzi · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2006, 07:39:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Every report of rubber bullets or duds that was filmed has been proven false. If you see the flash, damage is accumlated.

HiTech

Hitech, im afraid i have to disagree on that.

Even though its hard, if not impossible to get it on film (hit sprites in film doesnt neccessarily mean hit sprites could be seen in game and vice versa - to me it seems as if film viewer recalculates the displayed "data").
I had in the past occurences of clear hits (including sprites) and no damage or delayed damage (up to 5 secs), but also did damage to planes without having visual confirm (ie no sprites, i have tracers off, so i cant "confirm" a hit otherwise).

This always was related to connection issues, ie lagging text buffer, laggy connection over all. It also happened during the time where the MA seemed to be "twilight zone" due to internet issues.

My explanation on "rubber bullets" is simply that the bullet/damage packet gets lost and/or is heavily delayed. It would be more standing out on 30mm, since a single missing 30 mil is a lot more noticable then a missing 303 (out of 500).

Check your connect next time you have it happen. Relogging also helps sometimes.

Urchin · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2006, 08:01:30 AM »

Damage without a hit sprite would be possible in the film viewer because the film viewer is showing a recording of every second or third frame - it doesn't record every frame because if it did the films would be gigantic.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:25:28 AM »

one of the many, many aceshigh phenomina that is easily ignored by factoring virtual luck into your mindset.

in real life, im willing to bet my car that bombers and even fighters would sometimes survive multiple 30mm hits, or 'grazes' and fly home to tell the tale.

if you could kill something with exactly 1 30mm round at any angle and hit point then it would also be worth having a 'health bar' for your plane damage just like duke nukem.

hitech · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2006, 12:35:08 PM »

Hit packets can be delayed but never lost.
Once again read what I said, every hit sprite of a 30mm causes damage just like any other bullet.

How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.

For a bullet not to do damage to a plane after a hit sprite 1 of 2 things would have to happen.

1. The shooter gets discoed.
2. The shootie gets discoed.

Other than that there could only be a delay in the damage do to droped packets, but those droped packets will arive, and nothing else on that channel including text messages and lots of other stuff can arive can arive until the hit message does.

Is basic TCP networking things must arive at the procedure in the order sent and can not be lost with out the entire connection being lost.

HiTech

kamilyun · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2006, 01:04:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Think the only plane I've ever hit with a 30mm and not killed is an La-7. Sometimes you'll hit them with a 30mm and they'll just get an oil leak, but the vast majority of the time any plane you hit is either dead or engineless.

I was in an Il-2 the other day and took a direct frontal hit from an osty. My engine was cooked, I lost my right gear, but I was pointed at the airfield and landed

Also happened to me in a P47--direct hit from front on engine, engine dead, no other damage.

Murdr · « **Reply #25 on:** June 16, 2006, 02:54:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stickpig
Link dosent work

Must have been a server burp, link works fine. 37mm hit on spit16 just in front of stabs, and it flies on its merry way with all its parts.

jpeg · « **Reply #26 on:** June 16, 2006, 04:20:12 PM »

The damage is just not enough to visually register (ie piece flys off etc) but it is registered.

I've hit lancs with cannons from osti and had no visual damage right away and then have a friendly come along and fire a few .50 cals at it and I got the kill on them.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #27 on:** June 16, 2006, 04:55:30 PM »

the yak's 37mm round infact hits then engine block a glancing blow, and it is the 2ndary machine gun rounds hitting the tail section.

the only reason the spit keeps flying is because we dont have prop damage modeled from debris. he was lucky not to be wounded.

most often, the film viewer and game dont show things slow enough for us.

i had to slow to 1% speed to capture this, and the time between shots is less than 0.1 seconds of real time

Bruno · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:15:14 PM »

Quote

How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.

My post is probably a bit o/t but here goes...

Wouldn't Mk 108 3cm Minengeschoss damage be dependent on its high explosive content and not on 'speed or range' to cause damage? I assume you mean the 'speed of the round' and 'range of the aircraft'..?

Moving on from that assumption M-Geschoss rounds (HA-41) typically consisted of 75% Hexogen, 20% Aluminium-Pyroschliff and 5% Montanwachs.

Hexogen = RDX
Aluminium-Pyroschliff = Aluminum powder
Montanwachs - Wax

Damage would be the result of where the round entered the aircraft and the effect of the blast wave velocity in the confined space. 'Duds' are certainly reasonably in 'realism terms' as fusing could some times be problematic (especially early on).

If AH damage is truly based on 'range and speed' then it is easy to see why a round like the MGFF/M in AH are the weakest (even when comparing them to the Japanese Type 99 MK 1) in the game. If AH belting is a combination of all round types then the effect of the 2cm M'geschoss rounds are diluted and since they have a low muzzle and impact velocity they are all but worthless.

If true then I imagine the same thing effects all other cannon rounds (especially the MG151/2cm). However, with the hispano since it 'hits harder' and has 'greater range' its damage value has a clear (and observed) advantage in AH.

FYI,

Here is a decent site on Luftwaffe Ammunition (see 20mm Drivers and 30mm Drivers).

Lye-El · « **Reply #29 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:24:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr
Must have been a server burp, link works fine. 37mm hit on spit16 just in front of stabs, and it flies on its merry way with all its parts.

I have done that three times with Osti. I know i checked my variance after the last two and it was all over the place. That is spread out over a lot of hours though. Don't think I got discoed every time though as the varience check was done after the hit.