HiTech: What are we to police?

[Simaril]

Hitech:

I have a question. To set the stage, let me place a couple quotes....

originally posted by Hitech
........Why we do not tolerate personal attacks on this bbs. Because they lead to bad blood between people. Problems or acuzations should be emailed to HTC.

......snip......


This behavior will not be tolerated and if you wish to remain a member of AcesHigh and this bbs you will imidiatly stop this behavior both on the bbs and in the arena.


EagleEyes: I apologize for letting you get caught in the middle of this.


In conclusion if you think someone is abusing our system, email us, posting accuzations on this board will not be tollerated.

HiTech

originally posted by Hitech

KaTnIp: Hope you enjoyed your point, because you will not be flying with us after this week end.

HiTech

(I also remembered a quote about the community policing itself, but couldnt track it down.)


In any case, I'm really confused about what HTC's expectations are about score padding. On one hand, when Katnip admitted to deliberately padding after getting the #1 position, he was disciplined. There was no disaproval for the ones who "outed" the situation. And, somewhere along the line, somebody from HTC made a comment to the effect that the community was responsible for discovering padding.

Now we see another score padding episode, where the ?perpetrator (cant think of a neutral word) benefited with a good score but where he said it was an accidental byproduct of having fun. (I admit to some scepticism, because his buddy didnt get to reciprocate....but thats beside the point.) Anyway, in this situation the "outer" was scolded and the ?perpetrator got an apology.

We're told to email you if we suspect your system's being abused, but we have no idea what you consider abusive, and what you consider "par" for a course filled with competitive, creative players.

Please tell us what HTC considers "crossing the line!!!"

Is score padding -- multiple unopposed kills resulting in inflated scoring -- "abusing the system"??

Does intent make a difference to you?

Do you even want us involved in this stuff, or was the rebuke to AP more about past behavior than the current rather innocuously phrased first post?


It's clear that you have strong feelings about what's gone on. To be fair, its also clear that some people invest enormous amounts of time and practice into honestly improving their ranks -- it matters to them, and allowing unchallenged padding would be like letting open steroid users beat "straight" weightlifters in the Olympics. And posting the ranks, to be blunt, means that you have a vested interest in their legitimacy.

(Personally, I think that those who pad should be allowed to do so, but that scores with disproportionate kills of a few players should be disqualified from the rankings.)

HT, I am in no way arguing or challenging anything thats been done. Although I've rambled a little off my thesis, I'm really asking for a simple clarification: please post your expectations for scoring behavior, jsut as you've posted rulles for the BBS.


With respect,


Simaril

[Bodhi]

There is a score in this game?

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Simaril
On one hand, when Katnip admitted to deliberately padding after getting the #1 position, he was disciplined. There was no disaproval for the ones who "outed" the situation.

You got it wrong Simaril.

The thread with Katnip wasn't direct accusation of a player but was questioning HTC why names of those get 'honored' on the home page.
Later on, Katnip 'proved' the point and as consequence, he was severely punished (forced to move into shades according to undisclosed source).

Joedog thread was cheating allegation and that's not allowed according to forum  rules (infamous rule # 8).

Originally posted by Simaril
And, somewhere along the line, somebody from HTC made a comment to the effect that the community was responsible for discovering padding.

No, it was about vox abuse and about community using reporting tools given by HTC. The email by Skuzzy was simply misquoted and taken out of context.

[Clifra Jones]

I would say it's quite easy to understand what your supposed to do.

Email(or call) HTC regarding any concerns about score padding/cheating. this BBS is not the place for it.

It seems to me that those who bring their accusations here to the BBS will be treated with the same disdain as those who engage in the aforementioned activities.

[Simaril]

I guess thats my question: is scorepadding considered cheating by HTC?

[croduh]

If he considered score padding to be cheating he would disable scores.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Simaril
I guess thats my question: is scorepadding considered cheating by HTC?

No, I would say it is considered "unethical" behavior.

[Airscrew]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then is probably cheating or at the worst unethical.

[RELIC]

I see the point in wanting score padding reported to HT and kept off the boards - in some respects it could give the game and the community a black eye.  BUT what action will be taken when this information is passed on to HT?  IMO the question isn't whether or not the community considers this ethical or unethical - obviously many of us do - but what is HT's position and what steps will (or won't they) take in response.  Some clarification would be helpful - and it would be swell to see a certain players name removed from the home page for their #1 "ranking".

[hitech]

We do not draw lines in behavior because it turns into a never ending chase of you said this is the line , and it did not explictly say that this wasn't over the line.

I Have no idea where this "that the community was responsible for discovering padding" comes from.

The point of my post is, that ALL problems anyone has with a players behavior should be handled directly with HTC, and not publicly.

As for what the consiquences will be, that is us to decided as we see fit.

HiTech

[StarOfAfrica2]

Then too, you have some different situations going on.  On one hand we have a couple of guys, friends, who constantly kill each other and pad their score.  Funny.  A little sad.  But unethical?  Eh.  

Then you have a guy who opens a shade account.  Actually pays for a second account so he can sit there and kill it over and over again and artificially raise his K/D and pad his score.  Less funny.  Even more sad.  Very unethical.

What makes the first one less unethical?  Two people involved, one of which can always say "Ok, enough, I'm tired of playing catcher.  Your turn."  And of course one can always quit, ending the foolishness.  The latter scenario continues until he is outed by the community, sometimes even after.  

Is it cheating in either case?  No.  HTC is getting paid for all the accounts.  What makes BOTH unethical is that the reason we have points (scores) and rank is so that people have an indicator (however flawed) of how well they are doing in the game vs other players.  People WANT that in a game.  They WANT the "high score" or "#1 Rank", regardless of how much we make fun of "score potatos" and such, because it gives them a bit of pride in themselves.  If people do stuff like this, it throws the whole system out of whack.  It makes the scores and the ranks meaningless.  Well, more meaningless.  At least they had some purpose if we all stayed on the honor system.  Since some refuse to play that way, it ruins it for everyone else.  Basically they are setting themselves outside the community, and THAT is what we hold as important.  Community.  A sense that we all belong to the group, no matter how disfunctional we are in RL.

[2bighorn]

Well, AH has been discovered by those gamer types. It's no more premium WW2 aircombat game for enthusiasts like it used to be. It's just another game,  kids becoming the majority of the player's base, with all the usual 'gaming the game' stuff, and when score padders and such get awarded, tolerated, protected or whatever else in your favorite game just for the sake of few $$, you know it's time to move on.

Pitty it came that far, but was inevitable.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by hitech

The point of my post is, that ALL problems anyone has with a players behavior should be handled directly with HTC, and not publicly.

As for what the consiquences will be, that is us to decided as we see fit.

HiTech

Not much else to add to that. Thanks.

[hitech]

Bighorn your evaluation is 100% oposit of reality.

[Retired]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Well, AH has been discovered by those gamer types. It's no more premium WW2 aircombat game for enthusiasts like it used to be. It's just another game,  kids becoming the majority of the player's base, with all the usual 'gaming the game' stuff, and when score padders and such get awarded, tolerated, protected or whatever else in your favorite game just for the sake of few $$, you know it's time to move on.

Pitty it came that far, but was inevitable.