Author Topic: Messeschmitt Bf-109, Emil, Gustav and Konrad (Read 6813 times)

Reynolds · « **Reply #165 on:** August 04, 2006, 05:43:46 AM »

Okay, lets have some votes, whats your favorite 109?

I vote the Emil! (Bright Yellow skin!!!)

BlauK · « **Reply #166 on:** August 04, 2006, 06:00:09 AM »

G-2 with LLv34 skin... naturally

Reynolds · « **Reply #167 on:** August 04, 2006, 06:05:00 AM »

Yeah, i use the G2/R6 when attacking towns

Angus · « **Reply #168 on:** August 05, 2006, 04:42:59 AM »

109F
(Then comes the G-14)

Masherbrum · « **Reply #169 on:** August 11, 2006, 06:26:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Platano
Reynolds like i said what u cant out turn you can outclimb....

Engine Power/Climb rate...in order from worst to best..

109E-4
109F-4
109G-6
109G-2
109G-14
109K-4

The F-4 EASILY outclimbs the G-2 and G-6.

Platano · « **Reply #170 on:** August 11, 2006, 08:18:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Masherbrum
The F-4 EASILY outclimbs the G-2 and G-6.

your buggin.... This coming from someone that has recently discovered the wonders of the F4...

NEwayz..my favourite 109 would have to be the G2 with the jg54 brigh brownish skin..followed by the ....umm..what's it called reynolds Konrad?

yea that one...

Masherbrum · « **Reply #171 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:43:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Platano
your buggin.... This coming from someone that has recently discovered the wonders of the F4...

NEwayz..my favourite 109 would have to be the G2 with the jg54 brigh brownish skin..followed by the ....umm..what's it called reynolds Konrad?

yea that one...

Platan0, I've been playing for over 4 years. I've flown em all. Yes, the F4 will outclimb the G2 and G6. It also did in WWII. When I flew NAZGUL (my first squad) I flew the 109's all of the time.

Reynolds · « **Reply #172 on:** August 11, 2006, 02:26:24 PM »

He may have you there platano, i recently noticed i actually get a VERY SLIGHTLY better climb rate with the F. I like the JG54 skin myself, only i like the green one.

Reynolds · « **Reply #173 on:** August 11, 2006, 02:26:24 PM »

He may have you there platano, i recently noticed i actually get a VERY SLIGHTLY better climb rate with the F. I like the JG54 skin myself, only i like the green one.

Platano · « **Reply #174 on:** August 11, 2006, 11:26:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reynolds
He may have you there platano, i recently noticed i actually get a VERY SLIGHTLY better climb rate with the F. I like the JG54 skin myself, only i like the green one.

ok wateva..but lemme point somthing out..

"F-4 EASILY outclimbs G-2 and G-6"

now lets comepare that with:

"i recently noticed i actually get a VERY SLIGHTLY better climb rate with the F"

umm who's right here?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #175 on:** August 11, 2006, 11:52:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Platano
ok wateva..but lemme point somthing out..

"F-4 EASILY outclimbs G-2 and G-6"

now lets comepare that with:

"i recently noticed i actually get a VERY SLIGHTLY better climb rate with the F"

umm who's right here?

Look at the numbers. No question it will "Easily outclimb em". I don;t want to, have to or desire to be right. All I can do is help and educate others. Damn, you try and help others and they rake you over the f**king coals.

Reynolds · « **Reply #176 on:** August 12, 2006, 04:23:31 AM »

Well Platano, im not saying hes entirely right, but the F does out-climb the G2 under certain cercumstances.

Widewing · « **Reply #177 on:** August 12, 2006, 08:52:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Reynolds
Well Platano, im not saying hes entirely right, but the F does out-climb the G2 under certain cercumstances.

Those circumstances would be limited to a zoom climb where the 109F had a significant advantage in speed at the start. The 109F also climbs better between 12,000 and 18,000 feet.

Let's review the performance of the two. First, go to DokGonzo's site and do a comparison of the two.

Second, we can compare actual test data taken offline. Climb was measured beginning at 300 mph @ 50 feet ASL, up to 10k. This introduces a zoom climb that breaks down to a steady-state climb. I find this is an excellent way to establish climb in a combat environment. Data shown is time-to-height recorded in minutes:seconds:10ths of seconds:100ths of seconds. 25% fuel was used with zero burn.

Bf 109F-4 - 1:59:90
Bf 109G-2 - 1:51:62

They are close enough that the difference would not likely effect the outcome of a fight where speeds were similar, but the 109G-2 certainly has the advantage in a straight climb up to about 12k, with its biggest advantage being seen between 5k and 6k.

My regards,

Widewing

Reynolds · « **Reply #178 on:** August 13, 2006, 01:40:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Those circumstances would be limited to a zoom climb where the 109F had a significant advantage in speed at the start. The 109F also climbs better between 12,000 and 18,000 feet.

Let's review the performance of the two. First, go to DokGonzo's site and do a comparison of the two.

Second, we can compare actual test data taken offline. Climb was measured beginning at 300 mph @ 50 feet ASL, up to 10k. This introduces a zoom climb that breaks down to a steady-state climb. I find this is an excellent way to establish climb in a combat environment. Data shown is time-to-height recorded in minutes:seconds:10ths of seconds:100ths of seconds. 25% fuel was used with zero burn.

Bf 109F-4 - 1:59:90
Bf 109G-2 - 1:51:62

They are close enough that the difference would not likely effect the outcome of a fight where speeds were similar, but the 109G-2 certainly has the advantage in a straight climb up to about 12k, with its biggest advantage being seen between 5k and 6k.

My regards,

Widewing

Well, which can climb... more severly? I know there is a steady climb rate, but when i fly the G2, i can climb to run a lot better than with the F4, but if i want to start high, i find the F4 is better. No idea why, it just seems that way to me.

madrebel · « **Reply #179 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:43:56 PM »

Quote

all a G-14 really is a 109 in a G2 body frame with an improved engine and weapons (2x12.7MG's and the 30mm cannon)..thus making it heavier and less manuverable than a G-2..In a way it falls between the categories of a G6 and a K-4 [/B]

just to pick nits.

1) the german mg131 is 13mm not 12.7 aka .50cal. while better than the mg15/17 of the earlier 109s it's about (a little more than half) half as powerful round for round vs the browning or shvak 12.7mm heavy machine guns due to mass and velocity reasons. mg131 falls to fourth just behind the italian safat 12.7mm for HMG aviation guns.

2) the g14 was based off the G6 frame and was more or less a combination of sub types into the ultimate and last 'G6' type 109. the g14 could'nt possibly be based off the G2 as the G2 was in fact based off the F series frame. G14 appeared after the g10 btw.

3) regarding the climb rate discussion (just above this post), i dont know how the planes fly in AH2. i more or less lurk on these forums but plan to give AH2 a try since im bored with everything else. anyways, the G2 should be in everyway superior to the F4 in terms of climb rate. the G2 IS an F4 w/ a more powerful engine (db605-A 1475hp vs db601-N 1355hp) and an improved prop (better thrust) while only being about 70kg heavier*. apparently this game has them modeled such that there isnt a major difference and in reality i suppose it isnt that huge but the G2 should outpace it at all altitudes by an appreciable amount.

*other differences were the exterior wind screen armor was moved inside the canopy (already done on some late type F4s) and different radios. also the side cowling had some very minor differences too, almost not worth mentioning.