This week's most interesting comment from my Japanese Fiancee

[Eagler]

ask your fiancee about the little parade they had on Bataan..

then show her the pictures & tell her the story ..

if she can't handle the truth, you may want to throw her back in and grab another ..

[E25280]

Quick little take about the whole "criminal" aspect of dropping The Bomb . . .

Always remember it is the aggressor that sets the rules.  Well before Pearl Harbor, the Axis powers had established the rules of World War II -- it was to be Total War, and civilians were a legitamate target.  The Japanese had made that perfectly clear at Nanking and elsewhere, the Germans made that clear as early as the invasion of Poland when they bombed Warsaw's civilian population.  ([aside] I always laugh when revisionist historians try to pin the start of bombing civilians on Churchill [/aside])

So, IMHO, since the Axis had established the rules, the Allies shouldn't be faulted for following them.

[Brooke]

With regard to the atomic bombs in WWII, there are credible estimates that not using them would have caused an additional 1 million US casualties and an additional 10 million Japanese casualties.  Operation Downfall, which is the topic of the scenario starting Saturday (I encourage all to participate), was the planned invasion of Japan that was to take place if the atomic bombs weren't able to be used -- it would have been an enormous conflict, and we had lots of information in previous island invasions from which to estimate what it would be like.

[Pongo]

We would not dream of telling the japanese what to call us in thier own language. They would be outraged if we did.
I sure dont expect a 20 year old japanese or even an 80 year old one to apologize for IJA officers keeping ausies alive so that they could take the tender bits off of them to eat over a period of several days. But I dont expect them to tell me to stop talking about it either.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by E25280
Quick little take about the whole "criminal" aspect of dropping The Bomb . . .

Always remember it is the aggressor that sets the rules.  Well before Pearl Harbor, the Axis powers had established the rules of World War II -- it was to be Total War, and civilians were a legitamate target.  The Japanese had made that perfectly clear at Nanking and elsewhere, the Germans made that clear as early as the invasion of Poland when they bombed Warsaw's civilian population.  ([aside] I always laugh when revisionist historians try to pin the start of bombing civilians on Churchill [/aside])

So, IMHO, since the Axis had established the rules, the Allies shouldn't be faulted for following them.

I sure as hell hope we have more dignity and moral substance than to follow the rules of our enemies.  Usually, there are just a few to blame from the ground to the top brass for most war crimes that take place during warfare.  Take for instance, in vietnam where a few generals in a board room decided to go with "body counts" to assess how the war was going, or when Falkenhayn came up with this brilliant idea at Verdun "German General Erich von Falkenhayn was convinced that the war could only be won in the west. He decided on a massive attack on a French position 'for the retention of which the French Command would be compelled to throw in every man they have'. Once the French army had bled to death, Britain would be fighting alone on the Western Front.", or Mark Clark's "brilliant tactics" in Italy that sent thousands to their death without a fighting chance!  I hate to think about how Clark stopped chasing the German's so he could make a photo op in Rome that the germans had left for the taking, not to mention the Rapido river incident and all those brave Texans that were ordered into that Grave with banks.  I'm getting a little off subject here, but the point is there are many American's throughout the history of wars that have made decisions that were infact down right criminal and horrific crimes against humanity,  there are also, by a thousand fold or even a million fold, many Americans who have fought and died with dignity, honor, and moral character and many who even aided their adversaries after the battle was over.  Basically, for every war crime, there are a million stories of humanitys triumph over the evils af war!  The greatest enemy of all, though, is the enemy of deception! It usually comes in the form of a charasmatic leader and the powers that be around him.  History warned all of our leaders and some intelligently reacted.  Some reacted like animals!  Damn, I think this beer is bad!

[Bombardy]

originally I started this thread with the idea that the Fiancee says stuff that ocasionally sounds a bit off the wall to me and how it's interesting to hear "the other sides'" perspective. The war is over, wayyyy over, and now all sides can enjoy the peace that we have now. And my oh my it is a *wonderful* peace!!

I finished my original thread with a comment that I regularly PWN A6M's in my F4u-1, but to be honest I am surprised no "DA ME NOW BEEEYOTCH! I WILL SHOW YOU A REAL A6M PILOT THAT PWNS YOUR F4U ARSE CO ALT CO E" have surfaced.

 

[lazs2]

cruel and arrogant?   but...but... they are gentle paper folders and flower arrangers and they bow and all....

They simply have a different outlook on how to treat pow's and conquered peoples is all.... a subtle difference.

I'm sure that they have learned their lesson and their entire beings are changed now....  history could never repeat itself.

Even rolex would have to admit that their attitude...  arrogance... changes with their economy tho.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[E25280]

Originally posted by SkyRock
I sure as hell hope we have more dignity and moral substance than to follow the rules of our enemies.  

I believe another way to state your point is, don't stoop to their level.  While I agree that would be ideal, it is an unfortunate lesson of history that unless you truly, completely, utterly defeat your enemy, there will be no peace.  Your enemy dictates what he considers defeat by how he conducts his own campaigns.  The only way he then knows he is defeated is when you show him you can essentially one-up him whenever you like.

That is how armies keep the peace.  You intimidate your enemies into never attacking you.  They know that whatever they break of yours, you can return back on them manyfold.  When it becomes clear you are unable, or in the case of the modern day US, unwilling to take that step, you have ceased to intimidate.  Then any lamo crook, thug or dictator anywhere can do whatever they want knowing they will either get away with it entirely, or the response will be so weak as to be meaningless.

[lazs2]

SOA.... If you have "friends" that are colored and call each other a name but you are not allowed to do the same...

They are not your friends.   They should either let you be a part of that or not do it around you... that simple.   Yours or their skin color should not give you or them special rights.  

I avoid most colored people when I can because of this.  I am polite but.. they are more trouble than they are worth and I don't like being played... It appears that you are being played.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[navajoboy]

Originally posted by lazs2
SOA.... If you have "friends" that are colored and call each other a name but you are not allowed to do the same...

They are not your friends.   They should either let you be a part of that or not do it around you... that simple.   Yours or their skin color should not give you or them special rights.  

I avoid most colored people when I can because of this.  I am polite but.. they are more trouble than they are worth and I don't like being played... It appears that you are being played.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

wow
you are truly a sad person...

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by lazs2
SOA.... If you have "friends" that are colored and call each other a name but you are not allowed to do the same...

They are not your friends.   They should either let you be a part of that or not do it around you... that simple.   Yours or their skin color should not give you or them special rights.  

I avoid most colored people when I can because of this.  I am polite but.. they are more trouble than they are worth and I don't like being played... It appears that you are being played.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

You missed the point too.  Oh I might get away with it, depending on the context of how it came out.  

The point is I WOULDNT, because its disrespectful.  

And because I might get some teeth rearranged.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Bombardy
originally I started this thread with the idea that the Fiancee says stuff that ocasionally sounds a bit off the wall to me and how it's interesting to hear "the other sides'" perspective. The war is over, wayyyy over, and now all sides can enjoy the peace that we have now. And my oh my it is a *wonderful* peace!!


Amazing how that works, isnt it?  

I finished my original thread with a comment that I regularly PWN A6M's in my F4u-1, but to be honest I am surprised no "DA ME NOW BEEEYOTCH! I WILL SHOW YOU A REAL A6M PILOT THAT PWNS YOUR F4U ARSE CO ALT CO E" have surfaced.

Good luck with that.  

 

[DAVENRINO]

Originally posted by Krusty
SoA2, you've made a good post there, and have a good point. I, however, tend to believe that the word itself is not a slur. I believe words can be turned INTO slurs, by the invection and the way they are said/spat out of the mouth. You can say the word "Friend" with growl and it instantly becomes clear it means enemy. That doesn't make the word "friend" a slur. Far from it.

I don't disagree with what you've typed SOA, but I still believe it's more the use and not the word.

I agree with both of you.  My wife is from Tokyo and she uses the word Jap in everyday conversation with me as she watches Japanese news, etc.  I sometimes use it in conversation ONLY with her for the reasons SOA gave.

Bombardy,
Good luck!  I love Japanese women, especially if they haven't been too westernized.

DJ229 AIR MAFIA

[lazs2]

SOA... no... I believe I got your point.   You did not get mine.   the fact that your "friends" would use a word around you that they would be offended if you used...  is.... disrespectful of you... they truely are not your friends if that is how they feel.    

If they don't want to hear the word out of you then they should not use it around you.

navajo.... I have no idea what you mean... If you mean that my believing that skin color should not be considered makes me a "sad" person then it is you who are "sad" in my opinion.  

I know colored people.. they are aquaintences.   You were talking about friends tho... and entirely different thing in my opinion.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Strykar1]

Did the United States of America need to drop the bombs? Well that is a question that no one person can truly answer. Our government did what it felt it needed to do at the time. Its just that simple.

No need to argue over that point what so ever. We all have different views on that subjet. Personally I dont believe we needed to drop two. I would of been satisfied with one. But of course I was not around at the time. And I am quite sure two seemed to be the perfect number for the people who made the decision.

Japans actions during the war were also something that they decided that they needed to do. I hold no grudge against Japan for their governments decisions. And I hold no grudge against the soldiers who fought for their country and even their citizens for supporting their country during what I am quite sure they considered a time of need.

War simply put is Hell, Nothing more nothing less. Every country at one point or another has done something in the time of war that they should not be proud of. But I do not think for a single moment, That any country should feel shame or be forced to change the way they think or are taught just because another country decides. "Well thats not the way it happened"  

Just because some people may quote something in a book. Or our governments decide to tell us what happened. Doesnt mean that it is really how it happened. The best that any of can do is to attempt to view history from many different teachings.

And in my opinion Bombardy has a exelent chance of finding out a little more of the war than most of the rest of us do. His wife. from what I understand seems to be at least slightly versed in What happened in WWII from the Japanese side of the Coin. Perhaps with her input and his own knowledge he can piece together a little more of at least what some of the actual events were. Or atleast a Fine Start

And yes, Every country does have racism... Normally from the ignorant uneducated fools of the world. It is much easier to just pass off not understanding someone or someones culture by not even aknowledging them with respect of any sort. It always seems to so much easier to insult someone or dismiss them, than to sit down and try to learn who that person is. But sadly we will always have idiots like this. Once again it is as simple as that. One day, Maybe in the future when we have more important things on our minds. When something truly horrible happens that forces the World to actually learn to work together that we will finally put this behind us. But I truly doubt that shall ever happen.

Thank you for your time.

And Bombardy. Im quite interested in hearing your next question. At least for America's Involvment for the war against Japan. Im willing to bet it was us. But I would love to hear why she thinks that.