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Author Topic: Dropping landing gear in close combat?  (Read 2495 times)

Offline Saxman

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2006, 01:36:52 AM »
Question for you Widewing:

Captured this screen from a film I took today. As a setup, I was chasing a Hurricane at high speed and he pulled up suddenly. I dropped gear to cut my turn and we both went vertical:



I KNOW I should have had him, but my best shot when I had the most response from my plane came as he vanished into the sun and I couldn't see (NARROWLY missed him, at that).

I had E on him as I was closing fairly quickly so he hung on his prop while I was still coming up on him. I (obviously) forgot to tuck the gear again. What I noticed, though, is that the plane was far more stable in this situation than I either expected OR experienced in similar situations before (not the first kill I've lost chasing a baddie vertical into the sun and losing him).

Could the extended gear act to help stabilize the plane and keep her from rolling or snapping into a spin?
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Offline OOZ662

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2006, 04:29:18 AM »
[OT]
I remember an anecdote fom somewhere about F4Us persuing what I want to say were Betty bombers. They were so high up that the guns froze (the pilot forgot to fire a burst every once in a while after spotting the Bettys, so the guns eventually froze). The Betty guns had frozen too, so the F4U pilots pulled in close and sawed chunks off with the props.

No idea if that's true or not. Sounds kinda off to me, but cool nonetheless.
[/OT]
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Offline SkyRock

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2006, 06:11:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
I dropped gear to cut my turn
to slow down is a better phrase to use!  gear are used to slow the plane down and land on, they really have no mechanical assistance in turning the plane, that would be rudder,ailerons, and elevators!  hee hee :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2006, 07:43:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
to slow down is a better phrase to use!  gear are used to slow the plane down and land on, they really have no mechanical assistance in turning the plane, that would be rudder,ailerons, and elevators!  hee hee :aok


This is true, landing gear do not assist in turning. But, what they do accomplish is to reduce your speed rapidly to that where the F4U can turn its smallest radius. Thus, the impression is created is that the gear assisted in reducing turn radius.

What pilots quickly discover is that when going vertical, lowering the gear swallows up much of your E, which in turn kills the plane's ability to zoom climb. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending upon the situation at hand. It can prevent an overshoot, or in the worst case leave you hanging helpless.

Using the gear as an airbrake/dive brake requires great care and in most instances is detrimental if not immediately pulled back up.

My regards,

Widewing
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My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Saxman

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2006, 09:50:55 AM »
I know that Sky, that wasn't the point of my post. :p

Anyway, could the gear also have stabilized the plane in some way? Certainly in this case it WAS an advantage as it kept me from overshooting, and I felt like the plane was easier to control than I've experienced before in this situation.
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Offline SkyRock

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2006, 10:17:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
I know that Sky, that wasn't the point of my post. :p

Anyway, could the gear also have stabilized the plane in some way? Certainly in this case it WAS an advantage as it kept me from overshooting, and I felt like the plane was easier to control than I've experienced before in this situation.
Usually I find that the less E, the less stabilization.  But let me get to what I really want to say about this,  the only time I ever see dropping gear as being advantagous is when your in a dive and someone is on your 6 diving with you, then u can drop gear and stay out of their bullets until they pass.  Now to drop gear so that you don't overshoot can be an option, but then picking a better merge is recomended.  As far as dropping gear when a plane is coming in on your 6, I believe it to be a disadvantage to do so!  If you know how to manipulate the hog to avoid being shot, then you will want all the E you can to follow this guy and kill him.  The hog has a huge rudder so use it to your advantage.  learning the angles that the hog is capable of is much more of a help in turn fighting than dropping gear and hoping for the best!  also, here's a little helpful hint in fighting spits:  lets say a spit is above you and you know hes going to come in on you, simply nose down until you reach 400 letting the spit come right on in,  wait until he is about 800 out then make a flat turn to vert roll and you will be right on his 6.  at speeds above 400 mph the hog outturns the spit easily as compression limits the spits ability dramatically.  :aok
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Offline Saxman

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2006, 11:42:30 AM »
I\'d need to see a diagram of some of these maneuvers, or a film, as I have trouble visualizing sometimes.
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Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline SkyRock

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2006, 12:10:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
I\'d need to see a diagram of some of these maneuvers, or a film, as I have trouble visualizing sometimes.
Sax, just yell at me on 200 next time you see me on!  I fly under SmashR!
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2006, 12:15:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Usually I find that the less E, the less stabilization.  But let me get to what I really want to say about this,  the only time I ever see dropping gear as being advantagous is when your in a dive and someone is on your 6 diving with you, then u can drop gear and stay out of their bullets until they pass.  Now to drop gear so that you don't overshoot can be an option, but then picking a better merge is recomended.  As far as dropping gear when a plane is coming in on your 6, I believe it to be a disadvantage to do so!  If you know how to manipulate the hog to avoid being shot, then you will want all the E you can to follow this guy and kill him.  The hog has a huge rudder so use it to your advantage.  learning the angles that the hog is capable of is much more of a help in turn fighting than dropping gear and hoping for the best!  :aok


yep, yep.........my thoughts exactly.......

I also find is better stability when slow if you are trimmed out so you have to have slight pull to keep nose up ( manually trim to say 300 mph/IAS ) and leave it there, if you use ( I should say if I use ) combat Trim and am slow, with elev. trimmed all up it is more unstable then the manual trim I mentioned.......

but

YMMV..........;)
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Offline SkyRock

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Dropping landing gear in close combat?
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2006, 12:51:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
yep, yep.........my thoughts exactly.......

I also find is better stability when slow if you are trimmed out so you have to have slight pull to keep nose up ( manually trim to say 300 mph/IAS ) and leave it there, if you use ( I should say if I use ) combat Trim and am slow, with elev. trimmed all up it is more unstable then the manual trim I mentioned.......

but

YMMV..........;)
yup  trim nose down a bit and then pull against it to shoot!  Good advice TC  I think I learned that one from Nomak!
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