Author Topic: serious question for democrats....  (Read 1153 times)

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2006, 01:17:32 PM »
Priorities
Senator Feinstein’s crime & justice priorities include:

Restoring the Assault Weapons Ban

Cracking down on gang violence (PDF)

Tackling the methamphetamine epidemic

Preventing identity theft (PDF)

Stopping audio and video piracy

Protecting the rights of crime victims

Offline Meatwad

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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 01:23:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
Well, the Democratic Gov. of the State of Ill has been running attack ads against his republican opponent for several month's now on gun issues. I think it was the first ad in the entire campaign (it's still to early for her to run ads, he has a lot of $$$ and launced a very early media campaign). And there is a piece of pending legislation that barely failed a year ago that has been resurrected but is currently on hold waiting for the outcome of the state elections.

Charon



Us hillbillies dow in southern Il havent heard anything yet. Whats he saying?
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
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Das Funkillah - I kill hangers, therefore I am a funkiller. Coming to a vulchfest near you.
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 01:28:29 PM »
Senator Boxer was an avid supporter of the Brady Law, which requires a criminal background check before the sale of a gun. She also strongly supported the assault weapons ban that was signed into law as part of the 1994 crime bill and supports reauthorization of this law which is scheduled to expire in 2004.

 Senator Boxer strongly supports a ban on armor-piercing "cop killer" bullets.(myth)((well in handguns anyway))


Senator Boxer introduced legislation to protect the rights of cities and other entities to sue gun manufacturers, dealers, and importers for the cost of gun violence. (cant ban guns lets close down the makers)

 For years, Senator Boxer has worked for legislation to require all handguns sold in the U.S. to be equipped with child safety devices. The Senate recently passed the Boxer amendment to do just that.

 Senator Boxer helped lead the effort to add sensible gun laws to the 1999 Juvenile Justice bill. Her amendment directing the Federal Trade Commission and U.S. Attorney General to study manufacturers' efforts to market guns to children was the first successful gun-related amendment to the bill

 The Senate's leader in the fight to ban "junk guns," also known as Saturday Night Specials, Senator Boxer introduced legislation which would effectively take junk guns off our streets by requiring American-made handguns to meet the same quality and safety standards as imported guns. These junk guns are inexpensive, easily concealable, and are the preferred weapons of juvenile criminals.

Offline Meatwad

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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 01:29:46 PM »
Senator Boxer talks like Bob Dole
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
Das Funkillah - I kill hangers, therefore I am a funkiller. Coming to a vulchfest near you.
You cant tie a loop around 400000 lbs of locomotive using a 2 foot rope - Drediock on fat women

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 01:36:42 PM »
Teddy K

H.R. 5441 (amdt. 4615)  To prohibit the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal or State law.  


He voted no, but it passed.

Not much on his site on his stance on guns though.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2006, 01:46:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
it's a phobia, the fear of weapons, i can't remember the Latin word for it.



Hoplophobia, (pronounced HOP-li-fobia), from the Greek hoplo, or weapon, is a phobia identified by firearms instructor Colonel Jeff Cooper in 1962. His intent was to satirically use a clinical term to bring public recognition of the irrational fear of firearms and other forms of weaponry such as knives or explosives. He stated that "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user". Hoplophobia is deemed to be a cultural side effect of those who engage in the primordial human belief systems that anthropologists refer to as "animism", or the belief that inanimate objects can hold spirits that can effect human actions.

The word Hoplophobia does not appear in the Oxford English, Websters or American Hertitage dictionaries.

Sigmund Freud, the father of modern psychoanalysis, stated the following: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."[1]

Source
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 01:48:28 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2006, 01:49:56 PM »
Only thing I could find on Hillarys site.

Quote
I also strongly support the reauthorization of the assault weapons ban and have called upon the Bush Administration to take additional steps to keep guns out the hands of criminals and possible terrorists.


Her site isn't very informitive though.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2006, 01:54:32 PM »
Want me to keep looking Nash or is that enough for you?


You are right in that it seems some of them are either pulling away from it or hiding what they believe on it.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2006, 02:02:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Meatwad
Senator Boxer talks like Bob Dole


She says stuff like, "Barbra Boxer thinks you should re-elect Barbra Boxer"???
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2006, 02:17:02 PM »
nash... I think you missunderstood... I think that most democrat politicos try to avoid the subject of gun control (most of the men anyway)... they do so because they don't want their anti gun voting record out in the open.

If they go to such great lengths to avoid even being called on it.... why do they have such a stance?   They vote like a teddy or a boxer but they don't want it to be part of the campaign...   they don't want the issue brought up.

sixpence.... Yes, I feel we are infinitely better off because Bush won so far as second amendment rights are concerned.....  He has come close to meeting my expectations.

first...  allowed the magazine and assault weapons ban to expire.

signed legeslation that would protect lawful gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits and thereby insured that the left couldn't sue em out of existence.

Appointed TWO new supreme court justices who are constituionalists and do not see the second as a whim plus.. numerous other judges... this is probly the biggest contribution and difference between him and  a kerrie say.

Told the UN to pound sand on their global gun ban idea and appointed Bolton to the UN.

Lastly... and perhaps as important... he gutted the efforts of the anti gun crowd... they have all but given up till they can get some democrats in power....  nothing like the constant barrage of anti gun legeslation that went before congress when klinton was in power.

lazs

Offline Charon

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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2006, 03:23:43 PM »
Quote
Us hillbillies dow in southern Il havent heard anything yet. Whats he saying?


Well Topinka made a statement implying that the assault weapons ban is so broad that it could restrict a rolling pin, we have enough gun laws alread, don't need any more, etc..."

The "rolling pin" comment is being used out of context, ie... "She thinks an assault rifle is a rolling pin, WHAT IS SHE THINKING!" The "WHAT IS SHE THINKING!" thing appears to be the tag line in his first wave of ads.

The reality is that the regulation was so broad that you could ban any number of things once it became law. Ironically, the actual criminal use of so called "assault weapons" (semi automatic rifles) is so rare that you have as much or greater a chance of being killed by a baseball bat in Chicago as you do by the "...weapon of choice among gangbangers!"

It's interesting but not surprising that the ads are only running in the Chicago market so far. Gov. Howdy Doody lost about 30 percent of the vote in the Democratic Primary (not a good sign for the hand-picked Democratic incumbent to lose that many votes in Illinois), is facing some potential patronage hiring investigations and has to win back his base before he tries to convert anyone downstate.

For the Republicans, Topinka doesn't set my heart on fire. I think she would be lukewarm on the Second if it were't for the downstaters. She also comes across as the mean, chain smoking cafeteria lady, to Blago's doofus Howdy Doody. Both are connected to corruption, making it a particularly poor slate of candidates. Still, no choice. With a Democrat in Chicago controlling Cook County/Chicago and a Democratic Gov. things have been pretty rough the past few years.

Charon
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 04:41:47 PM by Charon »

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2006, 04:06:59 PM »
Now you see why I left Illinois?

Charon, keep fighting.  :)  

I'm a registered Democrat.  Have been since I was old enough to vote.  My grandfather was very active in politics until he died, and I was raised amid "discussions" of politics and current events.  We always believed in the 2nd amendment, believed our welfare system was bloated and mismanaged, our public schools were gutted and patched together with bubble gum and shoestrings, and that while almost everyone we knew was a Democrat you'd never see one as Governor, and Chicago Democrats were nothing like those of us in the southern part of the state.  

Well they got the Gov's office.  Chicago Democrats.  Royal prettythang kissers from the court of King Daly.  I dont think anything else changed.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2006, 04:47:29 PM »
I believe Charon has the issue pretty well nailed.

If I'm reading his posts correctly, the voters in Illinois are divided on the gun issue not so much along political lines as they are along urban and rural lines.

Tellingly, this coincides almost perfectly with the urban vs. rural split on conservative vs. liberal politics.

If you think about it, those are not contradictory statements.  There are plenty of Democrats who vote conservatively on some issues because of their rural backgrounds.  How else can one explain state voters who normally vote Democratic on many domestic policy issues rotating 180 degrees to vote Republican on issues such as abortion and gun control.

Conversely, some urban Republican voters will vote almost in lock-step with their Democratic "opponents" on certain issues while Republicans in rural areas will adopt opposing stances on those same issues.

Thus, gun control is a hot topic in most large cities and urban states.  Yet, the same issue can gain almost no traction in those states that have large rural populations.  

Why is this?  The issue has very little to do with one group being more intelligent or enlightened than the other.  Rather, in my opion, the issue is largely cultural.  Southern and western cultures have always had firearms available for sporting, recreational, and defense uses.  They are seen as an extension of a fiercely independent citizenry that loves and supports their country but doesn't completely trust it's government to respect its constitutional rights.

Many people in the urban population have, on the other hand, little actual connection to, or understanding of, rural culture and its traditional attitudes about gun ownership for recreation and defense.  The fierce independence of rural citizens is, in the case of urbanites, often funnelled into other areas and interests.  Long separation from farming and other traditional lifestyles has given rise to an urban mindset that can no longer identify with rural culture or its mores.

In return, rural regions find the fast pace and more liberal mores of urban culture to be repugnant.

The sad thing about this urban and rural split is that neither side makes any real attempt to understand the other.  Meaningful debate and attempts at reconciliation become, instead, rancorous and bitter arguments that add nothing meaningful to the national dialogue on the issue.  

The debate over gun control is just one symptom of a split that threatens to permanently produce two Americas diametrically opposed to each other along political and cultural lines.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 04:52:27 PM by Shuckins »

Offline Charon

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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2006, 05:13:04 PM »
Yep Shuckins, that's how it works here. A good sentiment as well.

As I noted though, even the "conservative" press around here prints verbatim the materials from Brady in their editorials. In one editorial they actually said, "while we can't verify that the lifting of the ban has caused an increase in crime, we believe banning these weapons at the sate level is a good idea..." While we can't verify... WTF type of journalism is that? I can (and did) verify that Assault Weapons pose less of a risk to Chicagoans than baseball bats by looking at the homicide reports at the CPD Web site. But then, I consider myself to actually be a real journalist (in the trade press) that actually tries to verify factuality and report the truth in the material I creat. I've sent numerous letters to the editor pointing out factual errors (not spin, but factual errors) and one letter to the publisher. All I asked for was fairness and that they consider my points and fairly evaluate them with neutral sources against the claims of the Brady group.

The "public editor" did step down recently, and the pages have been quite and some attempt was actually made in a recent news article not to hype the type of weapon, so maybe somebody listened behind the scenes somewhere.

Charon
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 05:17:00 PM by Charon »

Offline Nash

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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2006, 12:17:29 AM »
Sorry, I'm just not getting any sense of some big struggle over the mighty 2nd here.

I'll just reiterate, straight up, that I don't have any issue with guns whatsoever. They don't disturb my sleep, so what do I care?

That being said, I'm not one of these people that thinks guns are like some kind of sacred object. Hell.... Water, food, children's toys, tires and gawdamned house paint are regulated.

While the government needs serious watching to correct for any over-reaching, I don't think that guns exist in some kind of free-for-all-anything-goes vacuum. They do wind up killing people sometimes... Just like bad water, bad food, broken toys, faulty tires and lead paint.

Honestly, there really hasn't been anything posted here that's very shocking as far as I can see beyond the lack of specifics and a failure to tie gun control to Democrats in any serious way. Certainly nothing matching the rigid vigilance that winds its way through the BBS every couple of days.

I'm just not feelin' it. Go figure...

I mean, you started out by asking why Democrats are all about gun control, and now you're wondering why "most democrat politicos try to avoid the subject of gun control."

So.... Which is it?

Whatever it is.... it's not that big of a deal, frankly.



But it's your hill. Enjoy the view.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 12:47:23 AM by Nash »