France sides with Hezbollah

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by lukster
Since you brought in the UN.

"United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and called upon Syria to end its military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1559

That would make Hezbollah an outlawed renegade organization which has no legal right to be defending the borders of Lebanon.

This is what you call the "Pwn Stick".  Bravo!

[lukster]

Originally posted by straffo
nope

 

No one is more blind than someone who don't want to see.

Truer words are rarely said. Unfortunately, the one saying them usually means them for another.

[Elfie]

As for whats happening in Lebanon, the Israeli response was disproportionate to the crime

The Israeli response was intentionally disproportionate to the crime in an effort to stop the cycle of attacks by Hizbollah and the subsequent Israeli reprisals.

[bozon]

Originally posted by Rolex
Israel ignored UNSC Resolution 425 since 1978 and never did completely withdraw. Tensions along the disputed 'blue line' continued daily with the UN confirming that the Israelis were breaching the border, not Lebanon or Hezbollah. Not to mention the Israeli re-routing of a river to deny Lebanon their share of shared water rights.

The analogy is valid. The Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanon. That pretty much settles who is the invader, doesn't it? I'll put it in bold since you like that:

The Israeli soldiers were captured inside LEBANON (L - E - B - A - N - O - N).

wow, what have you been smoking?
Israel withdrew from Lebanon in summer 2000 and UN officials marked the blue line declaring that Israel has fully retreated from Lebanon. Shab'a farms claimed to be Lebanese were marked on the Israeli side BY THE UN.

Find me those UN reports of Israli forces breaching the border. I can find you a few where Hizballa has breached the border or fired at Israeli troops on the ISraeli side.

Re-routing a river ?! you don't know anything you talk about do you. The direction of flow in this region is from north to south (from Lebanon to Israel). Unless water start flowing up hill Israel canot prevent water from Lebanon - it's the other way around. Israel has made some noise about the Lebanese drawing water that flow to Israel and to the sea of Galili.

Israeli soldiers were not captured inside Lebanon. You can see from the photos of the burnt patrol vehicles that they were on the patrol road on the Israeli side of the border. I don't know of a single source that claim otherwise, not even Hizballa.

I feel sorry for you man.

[straffo]

Perhaps Rolex was thinking of the Golan or the Jodan river ?

[Charge]

"This is what you call the "Pwn Stick". Bravo!"

I would call that a sign of disturbing simplification. But if that makes it more easy for you to understand it then it's fine.

-C+

[Rolex]

So, your position is that people have no right to have a militia defend the borders of their nation from constant armed invasion by a country that illegally occupied it for over 20 years.

An illegal militia captured soldiers illegally invading its country.

Got it.

[lukster]

Originally posted by Rolex
So, your position is that people have no right to have a militia defend the borders of their nation from constant armed invasion by country that illegally occupied it for over 20 years.

An illegal militia captured soldiers illegally invading its country.

Got it.

Not necessarily my position but it is that of the UN which you brought in as the "authority" in this matter.


My desire is for Israel to completely destroy Hezbollah doing whatever it takes. Hezbollah is the self proclaimed enemy of Israel and the US and they have acted on that proclamation several times. If the lebanese people get in the way I have regrets and some sympathy for the innocents, but not a lot.

[PonyDriver]

Israel ignored UNSC Resolution 425 since 1978 and never did completely withdraw.

LIE

The Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanon.

LIE

[Rolex]

So, your position is that is okay for a country to have an armed militia and capture foreign soldiers invading?

[lukster]

Originally posted by Rolex
So, your position is that is okay for a country to have an armed militia and capture foreign soldiers invading?

Read my edit for your answer if you are addressing me.

[bozon]

Originally posted by Rolex
Here are some excerpts from an article by Scott Ritter (chief UN weapons inspector of Iraq 1991-1998):

"Contrary to popular opinion, Hezbollah is not an 'international terrorist organization.' It has not been linked to any acts of terror outside the borders of Lebanon (the current shelling of Israel notwithstanding, Hezbollah claims these are legitimate military actions in response to Israeli "aggression").

Hizballa was linked to the bombings of Israeli embassy and Jewish center in Argentina. It was done in response to the killing of Mussawi, Nasralla's predecessor, but that's still international and terrorism.

 The reality of Hezbollah is that it is a decidedly nationalistic organization that has gone on record condemning the September 2001 terror attacks against the United States, rejecting Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, as well as any killing of innocent civilians in the name of Islam.

Hizballa and El Qaeda hate each other. The former represent the extreme Shia of Iranian origin while the latter represent the extreme Suni of Saudi origin. Most local arab states oppose Hizballa as they are mostly Suni and do not want Iranian influence in the region. Suni and Shii were busy fighting each other long before the state of Israel and after it.

Hezbollah has participated in the legitimate political processes of the Lebanese democracy, winning over a dozen seats in the Lebanese Parliament, and holding several cabinet-level positions. The Lebanese government itself recognizes the unique character of Hezbollah, rejecting any notion that it is an illegitimate militia, but rather a legitimate national resistance movement that will continue to exist until Israel stops meddling in Lebanese affairs."

That's why Israel has full legitimacy in attacking Lebanon. If a branch of the goverment and a political party attack Israel it means a decleration of war by the state of Lebanon on Israel.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Rolex
So, your position is that people have no right to have a militia defend the borders of their nation from constant armed invasion by a country that illegally occupied it for over 20 years.

An illegal militia captured soldiers illegally invading its country.

Got it.

According to international law, Israel gained control of those lands in the process of defending itself from aggressors who attacked Israel in an illegal act of war. As such, so long as no actual peace treaty between ALL parties is signed, Israel is in fact NOT required to return those lands, and is in fact acting properly according to international law. Those attacking Israel are the ones acting illegally. Only Egypt and Jordan signed actual peace treaties. Cease fires are NOT peace treaties, and are in fact considered by international law to be temporary interruptions in hostilities. Study harder.

The ones conducting illegal acts are Syria, Iran, Hezbollah (and the rest of the terrorists), and Lebanon itself (by allowing Hezbollah and other terrorists to operate from their lands). Try again. You're not getting anywhere.

[Maverick]

Thank you rolex for tacitly admitting one of the things I have stated repeatedly. There is no seperation between hezbolla and lebanon. They are now one and the same. You claim they are a militia "defending" lebanon. The media treats them like a seperate force that lebanon is unable to control. I look at the fact that the lebanese PM is trying to negotiate as the agent of hezbollah and implies that he has the authority to do so. Apparently hezbollah agrees as there has been nothing from the organization that  I have seen that says they object to the lebonese PM negotiating for them and will not abide by whatever agreement he makes.

Since this makes lebanon and hezbollah one and the same I don't see where they have a damn thing to say about the Isreali's hitting targets inside lebanon whne their "militia" as you called it is randomly rocketing civilian areas of Isreal.

I see the UN situation is only used when it serves your agenda and not when it is regarding the shebaa farms.


Frankly, I think the un should depend on someone other than the US for troops in the middle East and in some other areas. It's time france and some other countries took up the slack and started doing more for global efforts. There wasn't very much support when the US called for the un resolutions to be upheld in iraq, so clean up the mess in lebanon on your own then.

[Charge]

"According to international law, Israel gained control of those lands in the process of defending itself from aggressors who attacked Israel in an illegal act of war. As such, so long as no actual peace treaty between ALL parties is signed, Israel is in fact NOT required to return those lands, and is in fact acting properly according to international law. Those attacking Israel are the ones acting illegally. Only Egypt and Jordan signed actual peace treaties. Cease fires are NOT peace treaties, and are in fact considered by international law to be temporary interruptions in hostilities."

Interesting. Any links to sources of international law?

-C+