Author Topic: How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?  (Read 1900 times)

Offline Debonair

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2006, 11:52:59 PM »
thats too bad, i luv teh flame wars.
i'm working on a MMO flame war sim (with AI n00bs, so u can practice offline)

Offline Jackal1

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2006, 08:24:49 AM »

I`m just beside myself.

See me?








:rofl
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2006, 08:24:54 AM »
funked... If we really want to value education then we should import jap teachers and administrators and let them run our school system.

or... we could just have a voucher system and then we would know it it was the teachers or the parents fault.

Since the japs spend half the money and get twice the results...   I would say that it is pretty obvious that the fault lies in our teachers and the public school system.

lazs

Offline Neubob

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2006, 08:34:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Remember, in the end, there are only 4 things that we can do better than everyone else:
- music
- movies
- microcode (software)
- high-speed pizza delivery


If it weren't for the movies and music on your list, I'd think you've been reading a bit too much neal stephenson.

Offline Chairboy

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2006, 08:50:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
If it weren't for the movies and music on your list, I'd think you've been reading a bit too much neal stephenson.
Actually, that was a direct quote from the first page of Snow Crash, so well done!  I was wondering if anyone was going to catch the reference.

http://www.ereader.com/product/book/excerpt/12128
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Neubob

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2006, 01:11:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, that was a direct quote from the first page of Snow Crash, so well done!  I was wondering if anyone was going to catch the reference.

http://www.ereader.com/product/book/excerpt/12128


It was a particularly salient quote too, because in all its audacity, it actually made a bit of scary sense. What a weird book, though, eh Chairboy? Hell of an imagination it takes to come up with Stephenson's unique approach to rape-prevention. I also took quite a liking to REASON.

Offline Gryffin

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2006, 03:50:05 PM »
I have heard a rumour that in the US you can't hold a failing student back a grade because it might hurt their feelings. Is this true?

Surely making someone repeat a year in high school is better for them than letting them graduate without knowing anything.

Offline Chairboy

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2006, 03:58:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gryffin
I have heard a rumour that in the US you can't hold a failing student back a grade because it might hurt their feelings. Is this true?

Surely making someone repeat a year in high school is better for them than letting them graduate without knowing anything.
It hasn't quite gotten to that level yet, at least on an institutional level.  There might be scattered schools that have dumb policies like that, but it's certainly not the norm.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline AquaShrimp

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2006, 07:11:59 PM »
IMO, the problem might not lie within the schools themselves.  Its the attitude of the general public.  Education is just not that highly valued.  The opportunity is definately there if someone wants to go to college.  But of course, to excell in a field, a person must be willing to dedicate more than just a few hours a day in college to learning.

So what I really think matters is the emphasis a person's family places on learning and knowledge at a young age.  By the time a kid reaches high school, he needs to already have a serious attitude about school.  Because this knowledge is the foundation for college.

Some psychologist say the problem today is that kids just don't have alot of motivation to succeed.  Its not like kids today (for the most part) are growing up in abject poverty.  Suburbian kids live in nice houses, with all the modern comforts.  So why work extra to do well in school?  Contrast this to the highly motivated foreign students, growing up in highly crowded cities, relatively few modern amenities.  They know what will happen if they don't do exceptionally well in school.  They'll wind up back in China or India working for a dollar a day selling fish.

So to sum it up, the educational opportunities in the USA are there.  The attitude and motivation arent.

Offline FUNKED1

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2006, 07:16:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
IMO, the problem might not lie within the schools themselves.  Its the attitude of the general public.  Education is just not that highly valued.  The opportunity is definately there if someone wants to go to college.  But of course, to excell in a field, a person must be willing to dedicate more than just a few hours a day in college to learning.

So what I really think matters is the emphasis a person's family places on learning and knowledge at a young age.  By the time a kid reaches high school, he needs to already have a serious attitude about school.  Because this knowledge is the foundation for college.

Some psychologist say the problem today is that kids just don't have alot of motivation to succeed.  Its not like kids today (for the most part) are growing up in abject poverty.  Suburbian kids live in nice houses, with all the modern comforts.  So why work extra to do well in school?  Contrast this to the highly motivated foreign students, growing up in highly crowded cities, relatively few modern amenities.  They know what will happen if they don't do exceptionally well in school.  They'll wind up back in China or India working for a dollar a day selling fish.

So to sum it up, the educational opportunities in the USA are there.  The attitude and motivation arent.


Couldn't agree more.

Offline Sandman

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2006, 12:08:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp

Some psychologist say the problem today is that kids just don't have alot of motivation to succeed.  Its not like kids today (for the most part) are growing up in abject poverty.  Suburbian kids live in nice houses, with all the modern comforts.  So why work extra to do well in school?  Contrast this to the highly motivated foreign students, growing up in highly crowded cities, relatively few modern amenities.  They know what will happen if they don't do exceptionally well in school.  They'll wind up back in China or India working for a dollar a day selling fish.

So to sum it up, the educational opportunities in the USA are there.  The attitude and motivation arent.


On the other hand... maybe the children are rejecting our definitions of success. How do these psychologists measure success? All too often success is measured as wealth or material possession.

It's nice and all. It's comfortable. But it's not going to bring happiness.
sand

Offline Rolex

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2006, 03:06:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Contrast this to the highly motivated foreign students, growing up in highly crowded cities, relatively few modern amenities.  They know what will happen if they don't do exceptionally well in school.  They'll wind up back in China or India working for a dollar a day selling fish.


The overwhelming majority of students do not stay in the US. Those who came to study didn't come from poor families. How do you think they paid tuition and living expenses?

There are more middle-class families in India than there are in America and the entire rest of the world isn't earning a rupee, euro or yen a day selling fish.

Offline Mini D

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2006, 07:16:26 AM »
A majority coming from the science side of the house do stay in the U.S.

But, you are spot on with the middle-upper class issue. The foreigners hitting grad school here are not from poor families, as a rule.

Offline Rolex

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2006, 09:08:33 AM »
That's true for post-graduate students. Some of the numbers get kind of fuzzy for several reasons: undergraduate statistics sometimes not included, some students entered with permanent-resident visas, some are continuing post-graduate study under fellowship agreements, etc. Many do have temporary working visas because companies recruit them aggressively.

Foreign students in the US are declining about 20% a year anyway since there is a confused policy. Corporate and academic America want them for their skills and tuition, some politicians want to exclude them as an election issue, but American students are not hindered by foreign students.

Interestingly enough, the US isn't even near the top in percentage of foreign students in tertiary education. It ranks 17th in OECD countries.

In international mathematics assessment of 15 year-olds, the US ranks tied for 21st among OECD countries.

In problem solving for 15 year-olds, the US ranks 23rd.

I'm not a fan of teacher bashing. It's up to the parents to motivate their children to pick up a book on their own, learn the content of a course and develop good study habits. If their child isn't learning something, then pick up the book and help them with it.

Americans kids still only do about an hour per night of homework. That isn't something teachers can control.

Offline lazs2

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How can the U.S. maintain a technological edge?
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2006, 09:21:10 AM »
LOl aquashrimp... are you saying that our teachers and administrators are as good or better than other countries?

If we had vouchers and imported jap teachers and administrators then we would improve education.

We "value" education here.   It is the teachers and the administrators who don't value it...  they value something else entirely.

They fight any testing or ability to fire their worthess butts.   They ask for more money every year and get less accomplished.

insanity has been defined as doing the same things over and over and expecting different results...

The way kids are being taught and the way teachers and adminestrators are doing it is the very denfenition of insanity.  

Blaming everything under the sun but the people doing the teaching is insanity.

Not allowing a diverse school system with vouchers is insanity... can you imagine the same people running the K-12 school system running every university in the country?   Is that what we want?

Paying people full time wages for a part time job and having the buildings abandoned allmost half the daylight hours a year is insanity.

We "value" education... we just feel that we are getting the shaft... we are paying twice as much as most countries (and even our own private schools) and getting half as much.

Yeah.... someone does not "value" education but it isn't the people being sucked dry by higher and higer education costs every year for less results.

I don't think the teachers union can keep up the blame game much longer.

I can't wait till their greed and arrogance push people over the edge.

lazs